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What Happened To Honour And Integrity?
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Lies, spin and double-speak seem to be the order of the day in more than one area of life, and moreover that dishonesty appears to be not only accepted, but welcomed, encouraged and exacerbated by many. What happened to the once cherished philosophy of honour and integrity?
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I'm not a fan of the slogan myself, but leaving that aside, so far, this thread seems to amount to "whatever happened to the honour and integrity of everybody I didn't like anyway?" Which is ironic, because it would take true integrity to turn the same level of scrutiny on people who are on "your side".
As to the Lib Dems: people are voting for them in democratic and open elections. Sounds pretty democratic to me.
As to the Lib Dems: people are voting for them in democratic and open elections. Sounds pretty democratic to me.
Jim, //this thread seems to amount to "whatever happened to the honour and integrity of everybody I didn't like anyway?"//
What it ‘seems’ to you is irrelevant. It is what it is.
/As to the Lib Dems: people are voting for them in democratic and open elections. Sounds pretty democratic to me.//
But the Lib Dems are not supporting democracy. Nothing democratic about that.
sevenOP, apologies. I’ll return to your questions but bear with me. As I said I don’t sit here continually. My time is limited.
What it ‘seems’ to you is irrelevant. It is what it is.
/As to the Lib Dems: people are voting for them in democratic and open elections. Sounds pretty democratic to me.//
But the Lib Dems are not supporting democracy. Nothing democratic about that.
sevenOP, apologies. I’ll return to your questions but bear with me. As I said I don’t sit here continually. My time is limited.
sevenOP, your questions answered.
//Who i s denying the impact that mass immigration is having upon western society ? //
Politicians, the media, apologists. This from a Labour politician.
https:/
//What are the reasons that Muslim grooming gangs abound ? //
https:/
//Who is in denial of the extent of anti-western feeling among the supporters of Islam ? - do you mean the muslims themselves? //
Most Muslims, of course, deny it – until they go on the rampage about cartoons being published or some other perceived insult to Islam when they call for heads to fall - but so too do the media and the authorities who do their utmost to maintain an impression of idyllic social cohesion that actually doesn’t exist.
//"a mainstream political party that openly declares its determination to defy the result of a democratic referendum and yet still retains significant support among the electorate" - are you blaming that significant portion the electorate ? //
Blaming them for what? I’m accusing them of being devoid of honour and integrity – because they are.
//"other mainstream political parties continually double-speaking, surreptitiously intent on thwarting the result of a democratic referendum and widely supported in their deceit by the equally disingenuous" - you are making a generalised accusation onto generalised accusations.//
Yes, I am indeed. Despite Cameron’s promise that ‘Leave means leave’, that the result of the referendum would be honoured, and May’s declaration that ‘No deal is better than a bad deal’, our Brexit negotiators clearly have no intention of taking us out of the EU – and never did. Additionally, although Labour voted to trigger A50 and pledged to uphold the result of the referendum, they too work to ensure that this country remains tied to the EU. Disingenuous to a fault – the lot of them.
I think I’ve covered all your questions.
//Who i s denying the impact that mass immigration is having upon western society ? //
Politicians, the media, apologists. This from a Labour politician.
https:/
//What are the reasons that Muslim grooming gangs abound ? //
https:/
//Who is in denial of the extent of anti-western feeling among the supporters of Islam ? - do you mean the muslims themselves? //
Most Muslims, of course, deny it – until they go on the rampage about cartoons being published or some other perceived insult to Islam when they call for heads to fall - but so too do the media and the authorities who do their utmost to maintain an impression of idyllic social cohesion that actually doesn’t exist.
//"a mainstream political party that openly declares its determination to defy the result of a democratic referendum and yet still retains significant support among the electorate" - are you blaming that significant portion the electorate ? //
Blaming them for what? I’m accusing them of being devoid of honour and integrity – because they are.
//"other mainstream political parties continually double-speaking, surreptitiously intent on thwarting the result of a democratic referendum and widely supported in their deceit by the equally disingenuous" - you are making a generalised accusation onto generalised accusations.//
Yes, I am indeed. Despite Cameron’s promise that ‘Leave means leave’, that the result of the referendum would be honoured, and May’s declaration that ‘No deal is better than a bad deal’, our Brexit negotiators clearly have no intention of taking us out of the EU – and never did. Additionally, although Labour voted to trigger A50 and pledged to uphold the result of the referendum, they too work to ensure that this country remains tied to the EU. Disingenuous to a fault – the lot of them.
I think I’ve covered all your questions.
I did not originally realise that the thread was intended as a reflection on Brexit (but not Trump). Since it has cropped up, what exactly is undemocratic about elections/referenda after the one before - is it that they might reveal a shift in preference from now until then ? Is it then undemocratic for policies to then change course ? When governments lose support you elect a new one. When it is necessary to take the pulse you do. I thought that was actually the point of all these things. Those who lose will always wait for the next time but I don't recall previous examples of the suggestion that the (narrow) winners insist on no more elections/referenda. Oh, except when dictatorships are the result - religions don't hold elections which might abolish religion either.
// Nothing at all [is undemocratic about holding a second referendum] - as long as the result of the first one has been implemented. //
It depends a great deal on what the result is going to be. If you think the result is going to be disastrous, then carrying it out and *then* deciding if it was a good idea or not is shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, and there's a reason that metaphor exists. We've gone over this material before, and I know that we disagree on this and that there's nothing I can say to change your mind, but the fact remains that there's nothing undemocratic about resisting, and seeking to stop, policies that you disagree with.
It depends a great deal on what the result is going to be. If you think the result is going to be disastrous, then carrying it out and *then* deciding if it was a good idea or not is shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, and there's a reason that metaphor exists. We've gone over this material before, and I know that we disagree on this and that there's nothing I can say to change your mind, but the fact remains that there's nothing undemocratic about resisting, and seeking to stop, policies that you disagree with.
//Who i s denying the impact that mass immigration is having upon western society ? //
"Politicians, the media, apologists. This from a Labour politician. "
So, it's 'Politicians' - unspecified, un-numbered, the media - unspecified, un-numbered, ditto 'apologists' and ONE female MP.
//Some Muslim men involved in cases where young white girls have been abused view them as "worthless"// + 'some Muslim Asian men living "in a ghetto in the West End" (of Newcastle) "call white women trash".'
18 sex offenders, but 11 towns/cities implicated - no numbers given
So it is most muslims in 'denial of the extent of anti-western feeling among the supporters of Islam' -
//"a mainstream political party that openly declares its determination to defy the result of a democratic referendum and yet still retains significant support among the electorate" - are you blaming that significant portion the electorate ? //
Blaming them for what? I’m accusing them of being devoid of honour and integrity – because they are. - again vague, are you blaming BOTH 'a mainstream political party' AND 'the electorate' ?
//"other mainstream political parties continually double-speaking, surreptitiously intent on thwarting the result of a democratic referendum and widely supported in their deceit by the equally disingenuous" - you are making a generalised accusation onto generalised accusations.//
"Disingenuous to a fault – the lot of them. "
So,' What Happened To Honour And Integrity?' is all about politicians /Brexit and sex offenders ?
"Politicians, the media, apologists. This from a Labour politician. "
So, it's 'Politicians' - unspecified, un-numbered, the media - unspecified, un-numbered, ditto 'apologists' and ONE female MP.
//Some Muslim men involved in cases where young white girls have been abused view them as "worthless"// + 'some Muslim Asian men living "in a ghetto in the West End" (of Newcastle) "call white women trash".'
18 sex offenders, but 11 towns/cities implicated - no numbers given
So it is most muslims in 'denial of the extent of anti-western feeling among the supporters of Islam' -
//"a mainstream political party that openly declares its determination to defy the result of a democratic referendum and yet still retains significant support among the electorate" - are you blaming that significant portion the electorate ? //
Blaming them for what? I’m accusing them of being devoid of honour and integrity – because they are. - again vague, are you blaming BOTH 'a mainstream political party' AND 'the electorate' ?
//"other mainstream political parties continually double-speaking, surreptitiously intent on thwarting the result of a democratic referendum and widely supported in their deceit by the equally disingenuous" - you are making a generalised accusation onto generalised accusations.//
"Disingenuous to a fault – the lot of them. "
So,' What Happened To Honour And Integrity?' is all about politicians /Brexit and sex offenders ?
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