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Does God cause natural disasters or just decide not to stop them?
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eg earthquakes, famines etc
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Naomi, We (Buddhists) neither subscribe to, nor deny the existence of God, and even if it were so, no help could be gained from such source, as it is up to the individual, here and now in this life, to find salvation, though personally when I look at the 'design' underlying the universe I find I gravitate toward the idea of the existence of something greater, and possibly unknowable.
Khandro, sorry to quote AB's past again, but someone here once asked the hypothetical question 'If you were obliged to adopt a religion, which one would you choose?', or words to that effect. I opted for Buddhism because rather than comfortably (and arrogantly in my opinion) assume that some mysterious unseen entity will take a detailed interest in them personally - or save their sorry souls - Buddhists accept responsibility for their own actions.
To a degree I think man does empathise with nature in a spiritual sense, so Ratter is right in his assessment - although as you say, it doesn't really matter what we call it. To my mind, universal love for our fellow man is what we should aspire to because love is the most important thing in this world.
The question here concerns natural disasters. Well, I was in Sri Lanka shortly after the Tsunami of 2004, and whilst no television news footage could have prepared me for the appalling devastation I witnessed, the Buddhists there, who had buried their loved ones on the beaches and had lost their homes and everything they possessed - and I mean absolutely everything - still found it in their hearts to hang lines of flags across the broken streets to demonstrate their sympathy to the people of the Roman Catholic world on the death of the pope. I have never witnessed such an unselfish act - and it is something that will remain with me for as long as I live.
If there is a god, of all the religions I think the Buddhist philosophy comes closest, because it certainly isn't the petty, vindictive, jealous, psychopathic god of Abraham, whose mythical presence on this planet has brought nothing but pain, hatred and misery - and continues to do so. It has to be something far bigger than that.
To a degree I think man does empathise with nature in a spiritual sense, so Ratter is right in his assessment - although as you say, it doesn't really matter what we call it. To my mind, universal love for our fellow man is what we should aspire to because love is the most important thing in this world.
The question here concerns natural disasters. Well, I was in Sri Lanka shortly after the Tsunami of 2004, and whilst no television news footage could have prepared me for the appalling devastation I witnessed, the Buddhists there, who had buried their loved ones on the beaches and had lost their homes and everything they possessed - and I mean absolutely everything - still found it in their hearts to hang lines of flags across the broken streets to demonstrate their sympathy to the people of the Roman Catholic world on the death of the pope. I have never witnessed such an unselfish act - and it is something that will remain with me for as long as I live.
If there is a god, of all the religions I think the Buddhist philosophy comes closest, because it certainly isn't the petty, vindictive, jealous, psychopathic god of Abraham, whose mythical presence on this planet has brought nothing but pain, hatred and misery - and continues to do so. It has to be something far bigger than that.
RATTER, If you would like a simple, basic introduction to Buddhism, I recommend; http://www.amazon.co....qid=1315986082&sr=1-1
Yes, Naomi, the open-mindedness one finds in B. countries is quite uplifting. Hand a book; a bible or one of any other religion to a lama and before opening it he will touch it to his forehead, and what he is saying is "May I benefit from any wisdom within these pages". PS Is that a custard pie you are holding?
On principle, I regard any form of mysticism as a means to obtain understanding as a dead end. God is for all intents and purposes, in any of its manifestations simply an attempt to anthropomorphise existence, to imbue nature with a misinterpretation and misrepresentation of human consciousness.
What I have found to be invariably true with regards to my search for truth is that, if you don't understand what it is, odds are it isn't what you think it is but most definitely, you don't know what it is. To know what is, is to know what it is and how you know it and the rest is merely conjecture.
If it is truth you seek then one must begin at the beginning by inquiring into and acquiring an understanding of what knowledge is, from whence it comes and the means by which knowledge is acquired and distinguished from that which is not knowledge. Believing is the greatest obstacle to learning and knowing in that it entails the belief that the question has already been answered.
"Does God Cause Natural Disasters Or Just Decide Not To Stop Them?"
In presupposing the existence of 'God' you have already removed the question from any realm of hope for obtaining a comprehensive or comprehensible answer. Belief in 'God' is of itself an unnatural disaster.
What I have found to be invariably true with regards to my search for truth is that, if you don't understand what it is, odds are it isn't what you think it is but most definitely, you don't know what it is. To know what is, is to know what it is and how you know it and the rest is merely conjecture.
If it is truth you seek then one must begin at the beginning by inquiring into and acquiring an understanding of what knowledge is, from whence it comes and the means by which knowledge is acquired and distinguished from that which is not knowledge. Believing is the greatest obstacle to learning and knowing in that it entails the belief that the question has already been answered.
"Does God Cause Natural Disasters Or Just Decide Not To Stop Them?"
In presupposing the existence of 'God' you have already removed the question from any realm of hope for obtaining a comprehensive or comprehensible answer. Belief in 'God' is of itself an unnatural disaster.
Why should a God be useful to humans? I don't believe a deity would yearn so much for a reason for their existence that they would create a universe simply so they could be useful to their own creations. That would be a 'putting the cart before the horse' type situation. If there is an explanation for what humans might call evil then I'm unsure one benefits by labelling it as an excuse and ignoring it because we don't wish to accept it.
I don't think that consensus would be correct. IMO any definitions should be clear as near to the start of the thread as possible.
If belief is an obstacle to learning then maybe I should stop believing in my own existence, or the existence of anything else; except that seems to stop all chance of learning anything. Belief is important, but it needs to be tested.
I don't think that consensus would be correct. IMO any definitions should be clear as near to the start of the thread as possible.
If belief is an obstacle to learning then maybe I should stop believing in my own existence, or the existence of anything else; except that seems to stop all chance of learning anything. Belief is important, but it needs to be tested.
Khandro, I have listened to a few talks on Buddhism on you tube, is there any talks on youtube that you would recommend.
I do find books very difficult to read, due to severe dyslexia I need to read and re-read each paragraph a few times to make any sense, this breaks the cohesion of the chapter and the book.
I do find books very difficult to read, due to severe dyslexia I need to read and re-read each paragraph a few times to make any sense, this breaks the cohesion of the chapter and the book.
Ratter, There are audio books; try Googling, 'audio books buddhism', and there is this link. Do you not have anyone who could read a book to you ?
http://www.learnoutlo...tid=19&level=1&id=105
http://www.learnoutlo...tid=19&level=1&id=105
Khandro, yes, it is a custard pie - and it's a long-standing joke among the 'old folk' in R&S. It came from a time when Theland and I used to go head to head over religion, but always without animosity or continuing hostility. That sort of silly nonsense was never an issue among the sensible regulars. Theland has a wonderful sense of comedy, and every 'sperlatt' I handed out was accepted with good humour. We used to have a lot of fun. We even formed our own 'cult' once - and our own band - with an array of the strangest instruments. Mibs (Mibn2cweus) found the avatar for me - just as he found my usual stained glass one. I changed my avatar to endorse my reply to a post from him yesterday - and as you can see by his avatar, he has responded appropriately. :o)
I'll go back to my stained glass one when I get time to mess about with Gravatar, or whatever it's called.
OG, //I don't believe a deity would yearn so much for a reason for their existence that they would create a universe simply so they could be useful to their own creations. //
Neither do I, but the penalty for non-belief is deemed by human beings to be so horrendous that from a human perspective he is considered to have a use - even if it is solely a means of extricating oneself from the threat of eternal damnation that he supposedly imposes. If that threat didn't exist, people would perhaps simply consider the possibility that an unknown entity created the universe, but they would have no reason to worship him - or to fear him.
Mibs, //Belief in 'God' is of itself an unnatural disaster.//
Yes, indeed.
I'll go back to my stained glass one when I get time to mess about with Gravatar, or whatever it's called.
OG, //I don't believe a deity would yearn so much for a reason for their existence that they would create a universe simply so they could be useful to their own creations. //
Neither do I, but the penalty for non-belief is deemed by human beings to be so horrendous that from a human perspective he is considered to have a use - even if it is solely a means of extricating oneself from the threat of eternal damnation that he supposedly imposes. If that threat didn't exist, people would perhaps simply consider the possibility that an unknown entity created the universe, but they would have no reason to worship him - or to fear him.
Mibs, //Belief in 'God' is of itself an unnatural disaster.//
Yes, indeed.
I can appreciate everyone has their own ideas (faith) about (in) God. However, no matter how much you try to "ice the cake", the Bible tells us that there is only One True God Psalm 83 v 18 (most Bibles) gives us his name. Molech, Ashtoreth, Baal, Dagon, Merodach, Zeus, Hermes, and Artemis are just a few of the gods named in the Bible.
There are many gods and you only have to look back into History to see this - The Egyptians, The Babylonians, The Medio Persians, The Greeks, The Romans etc. etc. All of these World Powers down through the centuries have had their Gods.
In theory, Buddhism does not advocate belief in God or a Creator. However, Buddhist temples and stupas are found today in nearly every country where Buddhism is practiced, and images and relics of Buddhas and bodhisattvas have become objects of prayers, offerings, and devotion by devout Buddhists. The Buddha, who never claimed to be God, has become a god in every sense of the word.
There are many gods and you only have to look back into History to see this - The Egyptians, The Babylonians, The Medio Persians, The Greeks, The Romans etc. etc. All of these World Powers down through the centuries have had their Gods.
In theory, Buddhism does not advocate belief in God or a Creator. However, Buddhist temples and stupas are found today in nearly every country where Buddhism is practiced, and images and relics of Buddhas and bodhisattvas have become objects of prayers, offerings, and devotion by devout Buddhists. The Buddha, who never claimed to be God, has become a god in every sense of the word.
Aye, deemed by some, naomi. Depends on the religion subscribed to, how fundamentalist it is, how fear inducing their image of God is. Any 'use' for a deity is one allocated by the believer. Yes, I suspect worship is for the benefit of the worshiper rather than the worshipped. A period in such contemplation can be good for the mind, maybe/hopefully the soul: takes one away from the cares of the world for a while to think on "higher" things.
"the Bible tells us that there is only One True God"
But why should I accept the bible is an authority I should believe in ? I can use it as a viewpoint I may choose to accept or reject, but it is not inevitable truth. Are all these names you refer to the same entity, or are they all supposed to be different ? And in who's opinion ?
I'm not a Buddhist expert but I don't think anyone believes Buddha was a God. Although I believe they consider God to exist but not be relevant to us. (I'm prepared to be enlightened on this by a practising Buddhist though.) Is this a straw man of some sort.
But why should I accept the bible is an authority I should believe in ? I can use it as a viewpoint I may choose to accept or reject, but it is not inevitable truth. Are all these names you refer to the same entity, or are they all supposed to be different ? And in who's opinion ?
I'm not a Buddhist expert but I don't think anyone believes Buddha was a God. Although I believe they consider God to exist but not be relevant to us. (I'm prepared to be enlightened on this by a practising Buddhist though.) Is this a straw man of some sort.
The Bible tells us that God gave our original parents all they needed to enjoy a happy and safe life. Furthermore, as they and their offspring obeyed God’s command to “be fruitful and become many and fill the earth,” the growing human family could count on God’s ongoing care.—Genesis 1:28.
Sadly, though, Adam and Eve deliberately turned their backs on their Creator by willfully disobeying him and choosing a course of independence from him. (Genesis 1:28; 3:1-6) By far the majority of their descendants have followed in their footsteps. (Genesis 6:5, 6, 11, 12) In short, humankind as a whole have chosen to be masters of themselves and of their home, the earth, without any guidance from God so as allway you learn by your mistakes.
Sadly, though, Adam and Eve deliberately turned their backs on their Creator by willfully disobeying him and choosing a course of independence from him. (Genesis 1:28; 3:1-6) By far the majority of their descendants have followed in their footsteps. (Genesis 6:5, 6, 11, 12) In short, humankind as a whole have chosen to be masters of themselves and of their home, the earth, without any guidance from God so as allway you learn by your mistakes.
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