Higgs; is this a giant scam?

[Khandro]

I'm puzzled by the fact that at a cost of billions and so many people having made a lucrative career out of this, that it would be exciting if it didn't exist!
'If they do discover the Higgs, it would be a triumph for the Standard Model, making it a complete theory.

If they do not, it would be an even more exciting outcome, according to Professor Tonelli.

"This would be the first time that we would have scientific evidence that this theory which has been so successful in the last 40 years must be definitely abandoned and we should look for another theory." '

[starone]

As I have said before, I wish they would stop trying to blow the world apart. One of these days they might succeed.

[Frank97]

I find the whole Higgs thing fascinating even though I don't fully understand it! Definitely not a waste of money IMO.

[Khandro]

Listen guys, I'm no luddite, of course we need science. I'm just saying, prepare yourselves for a expensive and 'exiting' negative outcome dressed up as a great success.

[vascop]

As I think somebody has already said, I don't see how we CAN get a negative outcome. If there is a Higgs then positive result. If there isn't a Higgs then positive result.

[Frank97]

I agree vascop the failure to find it would be just as interesting if not more so than if the experiment sucessfully proves its existance.

[Khandro]

"I agree vascop the failure to find it would be just as interesting if not more so than if the experiment sucessfully proves its existance." (sic)

I don't wish to be rude, but your previous post said;

"I don't fully understand it!" Hmmm.

[Frank97]

I don't that's why it interests me, what's wrong with that?

[flobadob]

I wouldn't be surprised if they don't find it. After all from what I can make out is that they couldn't make their sums add up so they invented a number, more or less.

[Khandro]

For example D97; in jurisprudence it is generally accepted that the defence should understand what he or she is defending.

[Frank97]

Fair enough. I'm just a ordinary bloke thats interested in science, you think that's wrong then so be it I won't have any more to say on the subject.

[vascop]

Khandro: Your last comment is silly and smacks of the ramblings of a person who suddenly realises that they are talking nonsense. The jury in a court case is made up of ORDINARY citizens who weigh the evidence.
The planet Neptune was predicted to exist mathematically before it was discovered, by observing the behaviour of other planets which COULD be seen.
The standard model of particle physics accommodates almost all the observed behaviour of the vast array of known particles and predicts the existence of the Higgs particle(s), just as the theory of gravity predicted the existence of Neptune. The chances of there being nothing like the Higgs or something equivalent are therefore very small. That's why all the money has been made available - the odds are very much in favour of the Higgs existing, much greater than 50-50. If you could bet on the non-existence of the Higgs, the bookies wouldn't give you very good odds.

[vascop]

Sorry that should be:
If you could bet on the existence of the Higgs, the bookies wouldn't give you very good odds.

[rov1100]

A scientist created an alternative to the Higgs Boson, even before the LHC was built. This was a much simpler solution! Maybe they will take more notice of his theory now!

http://www.higgs-boson.org/

[vascop]

Of course there is no shortage of cranky ideas that contradict just about every idea in physics that all serious scientists accept.

[Khandro]

Neptune,.....Schneptune ! and what about pluto; downgraded, and swept under the celestial carpet. Play on you nerds! 3 billion euros, and on our planet babies still are dying from hunger.

[boxtops]

The two don't correlate though, Khandro - there have always been plagues and famines, throwing money at them doesn't solve the problem.

[Khandro]

@vascop. Sorry I posted before reading your last. Please explain "Serious scientists".

[rov1100]

Maybe the Higgs Boson is a cranky theory!

[vascop]

@Khandro: What I mean is that anyone can come up with a new idea, but in the "serious" scientific world ideas and experimental results are published and subject to peer reviews. The serious scientists are the ones who are qualified in their field and whose work has been reviewed by others BEFORE being published.