Too stupid...

[HillyHugger]

Saw this woman interviewed on 5 news last night . Doesn't appear to be the sharpest tool in the box but I think it's an absolute disgrace .

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/5417283 /Social-services-in-Nottingham-claim-mother-is -too-stupid-to-bring-up-child.html


Having just read a book about eugenics I find this particularly frightening . What gives people the right to make judgments like this ?

[Julnar]

It does seem strange that a loving mother who is deemed by experts as ok intellectually could be treated in such a way by the fascists at Social Services. I thought the modern ideology was to keep Mums and children together whenever possible. She might need a little more help than some mothers, but so what. She loves her child and wants to be with her. That's one hell of a big plus in my book!

[jno]

in the case of baby P people complained that social services wre idle layabouts for not intervening. Now they're fascists for intervening.

Always easier to make these judgment calls when seated in an armchair with your newspaper, isn't it?

[Quinlad]

People absolutely love slagging off social workers. They're viscious about it.

So fewer people want to become social workers.
So the standard of applicants falls.
So the standard of social workers falls.

Then we slag them off even more. And so it goes on.

Even though we know deep down that society would be in a poorer state without them. Well done.

[HillyHugger]

Maybe your right jno , but this seems pretty clear cut to me - although maybe we're not getting the whole story . Seems to me that she shouldn't have to resort to going all the was to the European courts to attempt to get her baby back , how can any of this be helpful for the child ?

[R1Geezer]

Her mistake is probably not being a drug addicted nutter with a viokent boyfriend.

However I do concede jno's point we don't know the full story and I guess it is a case of damed if they do damed if they don't.

[wolf63]

How do you gauge how stupid somebody is?

I am intelligent, can string a sentence together and can (almost) count.

But, despite being female, I wouldn't have a clue how to cope with a baby or the patience to deal with a toddler.

I don't think that being 'too stupid' is a psychological or medical condition.

Bah! I despair sometime.

[Schutzengel]

Sadly, it was reported that the young lady's IQ is 71, as against 100 for the general population. Possibly she might have needed support to cope well, and if so that support should have been given, rather than taking away her 3yr old daughter who loves her mum. What kind of damage will that do to the child. I despair.

[Gromit]

I don't know why they would do it, but it sounds like she was stitched up by the authorities...

Prior to the hearing, Nottingham City Council appointed psychiatrist to assess Rachel. She concluded Rachel was not capable of instructing her own solicitor. Rachel's original solicitor from the Nottingham Family Law Association was removed and an official solicitor appointed.

But when the time came the official solicitor submitted a statement to the court to say he felt the evidence that she could not look after her child was overwhelming. He offered no evidence to support her wish to maintain custody.

He also said Rachel was incapable of giving her consent to the Placement Order, effectively nullifying any objection. At Rachel's request, the barrister appointed to represent her told the court she wanted to care for the child, but no further information was offered. There was no opportunity for Rachel to speak.

From here
http://www.fassit.co.uk/rachel_pullen_mumsfigh t.htm

[Gromit]

Schutzengel

If you read the link above, the baby was taken into the care of Social Services after her birth. The baby never slept in her cradle.

[barry1010]

The baby was removed from her mother when she was 6 months old, not three years old.
The mother never had proper care of the baby, who was put in to foster care after months in hospital because of health problems when she was born.
The mother was unable to provide normal parental skills for the baby even with the guidance and support of hospital staff and trained support workers.

[ludwig]

Decisions like this should never be questioned. Social workers always know better than us. They've been on training courses and everything.
The mother is a whingeing attention seeker who's too stupid to know when the powers that be are acting in her best interests.

[youngmafbog]

lets give the toddler back and then see how long it is before half of you lot all moan that it should not have been done when the child is dead or serioulsy injured.

Perhaps there has been an over zealous official but then perhaps there are many facts that we dont know. It is really odd that SS would take away a child unless it really had to. They just dont do that. This has also been through the Court. If the mothers rights were blatanted being flouted I suspect something would have been said.

Much as i dislike Social workers they are a necessary evil and it is perhaps not always the easiest of jobs. Perhpas we should all start cutting them some slack?

[cazzz1975]

I definately think we are not getting the whole story, on the surface it seems bizarre, but for the social services to make such a dramatic decision there must be more to it that we have no knowledge of.

[Julnar]

In answer to jno and Quinlads objection to my use of the term fascist to describe this particular group of Social Workers, I stand by my comment, even moreso having read the articles in Gromits answer. This particular child was never abused or treated badly by its mother, so comparisons with Baby P are totally irrelevent and are merely used to muddy the waters in this particular case.

As for people loving to slag off social workers, that is patently nonsense. People are merely fed up with children being injured and killed, major in depth judicial reviews taking place, only for social services departments to ignore or not act upon the findings of said review and continue in their former, unacceptible manner until another child is killed and the whole process turns full circle once more. Social Services Departments and Social Workers generally have only themselves to blame for being viewed with distrust by many people.

[Schutzengel]

The original story didn't mention the child being removed from the mother's care as a tiny baby. The article headlined, "Why have they taken my little girl". Then went on to mention that the child was 3yrs old. Which was why I commented as I did. With a few more facts, and still not the whole story, that puts a different complexion on it altogether.

[paraffin]

Perhaps we could have the intellectually challenged population sterilised? Wasn't that an intrinsic part of Hitler's "Final Solution"?

Weren't the Nazis therefore just Social Workers in this respect? Looking after the interests of the population at large? Ensuring that those of low intellect should not be allowed to infest us with idiot offspring?

Perhaps their ultimate policies went a bit far but there are parallels which can be drawn, are there not? I'm sure the Social Workers amongst you will see where I'm going with this comparison, huh?

[Quinlad]

Nice one, Julnar.

You slag off social workers for taking a child away and as justification you attack them for previously failing to take children away.

It's a tightrope innit? I can't think this trial-by-tabloid is helpful.

[Julnar]

I fail to see your point, Quinlad. As far as I'm concerned the good of the child should come first, not the convenience of the Social Workers, so one argument may work in one case, but not in others. In the particular case highlighted in this question, the child has even asked to be allowed to be with its mother.

[barry1010]

So the mother says.
The truth is that while the child was in hospital the mother could not grasp even basic childcare such as regular feeding and nappy changing. She never understood that the baby's head had to be properly supported in her early weeks.

[jno]

paraffin, aren't you getting this backwards? The child has some sort of difficulties - it's unclear what they are but she needed several operations while very young - and the council is trying to protect her, not kill her.