listener 4028

[fancydan]

any thoughts on Mr E's latest.
The number connection fills me with dread.
Have solved about half of the clues and found several clashes.
Cheers

[starwalker]

Have now completed this after a "second wind".

I can see the problems that some are having in justifying the actions needed. Obviously the smaller shape can only move to the larger shape, and also, in keeping with the theme, the larger shape should not move. It is also worth noting that although the arrow does not reach or touch the larger shape, the same is also true of the smaller shape. The arrow merely indicates a route which spells out a word as it passes through the letters (and not necessarily the centre of the squares involved.)

[Clamzy]

u10 As starwalker says the smaller object is the only moveable one unless you have sophisticated gardening equipment. My "perfect" remark above would only apply on (say) a snooker table and not in this case.

[kwyjibo]

Fancydan - It's another spelling of the two letter cross I believe that you might be thinking of.

[Walterloo]

Fabulous puzzle. Only managed to get to it yesterday afternoon and it's already one of my favourites, although my first twenty reads of the preamble made me think I'd never get it.

I too have moved my smaller shape into my larger one, leaving a blank cell behind, but it took me a while to realise that the clue referred to in the puzzle as being 'defined in the puzzle's context' was more important than I thought.
It hadn't clicked in my head that the first filling in of numbers was the 'predicted outcome' and that the answer to that clue was my position before this, even though it's all in the preamble and the clue. Before my moment of clarity I was wondering what two numbers to change.

A splendid puzzle.

[cluelessJoe]

Just as an aside, has anyone happened to grasp the relevance of the title? It would bring matters to a much more satisfactory conclusion if I had the foggiest as to where that came from!

[perseverer]

cj - was about to ask the same question.

Height is H 8 - not familiar enough with the jargon of the contest to know if that would mean anything.

Even more irrelevantly, neither solver nor setter seems to be all that great at the contest!

[emcee]

I wondered whether the "two object" cell represents contours - an indication of height. Failing that, I've no idea either!

[kwyjibo]

I think I may have the answer to the title. There is a word related to the theme for which the title could be a clue. It could be found near the smaller object and should be repaired.

[midazolam]

yes i agree that 1. in my previous thread i.e. moving the smaller shape is the way to go, and I like the thinking of uncletony so that the arrow can point to the larger shape in one go.

For me this was filled with plenty of thematic material and is one of the best this year. I smiled at the answer to 32 down.

My impression regarding the title was that it contains 5 letters crucial to the finale.

[Walterloo]

. . . or another theory about the title, and in keeping with what we had to do with letters into numbers, is that a well-known abbreviation, or indication, for HEIGHT is one letter, which is at position number * * * * * in the alphabet. The five lettered word indicated by midazolam.
Maybe.

[u10]

Thanks for all the ideas. I've switched my theory to agree with the majority. The small shape must move. However it moves in a strange path before it reaches the large shape!

[kwyjibo]

The strange path is in keeping with the theme (especially if it is loosely based on an event taking place this week where you will see lots of very strange paths). If the cells had been highlighted, rather than an arrow drawn, I don't think anyone would have raised an eyebrow.

I'm still not convinced by any of the explanations for the title, including mine and that's my only criticism of an excellent puzzle that had me kicking myself for not realising the theme earlier.

[JackDeCrow]

Bit late in the day to get into this shape-moving debate perhaps, but I only finished last night. For what it's worth, my view was although it's physically more possible to move the smaller shape before the "final effort", it's pretty much just as frowned upon! To me the curved arrow represents said final effort, so the only way to make it successful is to move the big shape one to the left. I agree that leaving a gap in its place is a bit unsatisfactory, but apart from that it's a spectacular puzzle.

[fancydan]

I think I was the first to set things rolling this week.
I have struggled long and hard and suddenly two minutes ago, I saw the light.
A real giggle of a moment.
Many thanks to the setter.

[JackDeCrow]

As ever, you post something on here and then think about it some more. After reading the preamble for the 1000th time, I realise now that the "portion of the grid" which shows the setter's prediction could include the arrow squares (having previously thought it was just the relevant numbers). It could then be that the shape of the arrow should have been more complicated (as per uncletony's suggestion) which is why the setter is wrong. Hmmm...annoying.

[emcee]

Yes, I took the 'portion of the grid' to mean the two special cells and the path. I viewed this depiction as the "miss" *predicted by the setter *and that reality involved moving the smaller object into the larger to claim success for the solver.

[Clamzy]

I think the root of the ambiguity has been the "curved line" phrase, but uncletony sorted that one for us.
I've received my statistics for 2008 and in the more successful solvers list is a DR S.E.Morris and others, with 47 correct. It doesn't say how many others but the postcode CB might be Cambridge, so do we have here the mythical "staffroom of Dons"?

[robinruth]

I've stayed out of this as I am a long way from the final stage. Just a comment that it is mind-boggling following the thread and certainly gives nothing away to anyone who can't complete the grid filling. I am coming in now to prompt CluelessJoe that I have sorted last week's email problem and will be able to help this week - [email protected]

[shelouse]

Have been kibitzing for some time and learnt a lot. I'm 6 answers short but having trouble with 27d & 40a. Am quite sure of answer to latter but don't understand the relevance of same outline shape as the entry, as referrred to in the preamble. Help, please anyone.

[Clamzy]

The shape referred to is that of the letters occupying those particular cells. Some letters have the same shape whether capitals or lower case, and differ only in size.
Hope that helps.