Listener 4204 by ?

[midazolam]

Another week and we don't know who set it (no clue on the Times or Listener sites)

This was a fun, enjoyable, clever solve that all fitted together nicely in the end...thanks setter

[Ruthrobin]

Indeed we are moaning, tenflags, I think it was grossly unfair, but there is nothing we can do about it.

[Walterloo]

Started this yesterday. Tough going for me as I don't like the clues much and with that mental attitude I'm finding them tricky to unravel. But half the grid done and slowly getting there. The grid fill is interesting enough to keep me going.

[jumperjudy]

Well apart from careless mistakes (I misspelled 36 on entry into the grid, and did anyone else notice that one of the '8 words' is very close to being a 'normal' clue?) I found the grid fill fairly straightforward. However, I have yet to work out the wordplay on all of the 8 clues, and so am still puzzling to the bitter end. I haven't seen one like this before, so it makes for a nice variation. Thanks triple!

[AndrewG-S]

Found this a bit of a slog. Clues with so many superfluous words are not particularly aesthetic. The tricky bit was getting a start, then it was a slog of inputting letters into quinaplus, no real brain power (hats off to Z for doing it the proper way). Very nearly gave up a few times. Also got the B/b wrong so bang goes this year. Put me down for the Z cup.

[Ruthrobin]

jumperjudy, there was a very similar one in the July Magpie - Chatterbox by Rasputin (time for another Magpie plug http://www.piemag.com/ - they wouldn't have played the dastardly B/b game!)

[IainGrace]

Contendo, all parts of the clue are eligible for forming part of the jumble. Finished now. Good challenge - not just a single session job - and haven't seen this type recently. The conceit is different and initially attractive but becomes a bit contrived and loose.

[dr b]

Late start on this one. Like Andrew I found the jumble +1 device got old quick. Pdm not worth the effort. Silver medal for me in the Zlympics this week.

[silversolver]

I enjoyed this one, original and different. It did take a while to get started but things speeded up towards the end. I did manage to plump for the b instead of the B in 4201 but thought at the time that highlighting the knights would have been a much better requirement.

[Walterloo]

This certainly got better as I progressed. An intriguing but difficult challenge to fill the grid for me. I found the Magpie's version easier but still challenging and therefore more satisfying but this one had enough going for it to like. Thanks Triple.

[Arcticpenguin]

If I submit the answer all in lower case letters would it automatically be marked wrong ?

[Alekhine]

Routine stuff this week ... and a bit of a chore, to be honest.

My ecstasy at finishing 4203 (and thus maintaining my 100% submission record this year) was dealt a cruel blow with the news of 4201.

The 'lower case' requirement is doubly flawed in my view ... first ... it was a 'B' that had to be moved ... not a 'b' ... and second ... the Russian character is 'Б' .. not 'b'.

Hopefully (irony) I have made other errors this year as I will be mightily miffed if my 100% record is Бlotted Бy this single Бlemish.

[jim360]

I've had too many wrong this year to lose much sleep over 4201 - though it's a pain that I should miss out on an extra right by exactly one small curve. Never mind, last week's made up for it but I also agree with Alekhine that this week's was a bit tedious at times.

[jumperjudy]

Thanks for the link Ruthrobin. I have to be careful though, or all my time will be spent doing crosswords, while husband, kids, cats and house complain of neglect!

[failedagain]

Nobody going to point out Alekhine's new calumny? The character is Ь/ь (soft sign), not Б/б (second letter of alphabet as listed in Chambers) or В/в (third letter) or Ъ/ъ (hard sign).

[Alekhine]

failedagain,

I'm happy to bow to your superior knowledge of all things Cyrillic, but as far as I'm concerned it is the second letter of the alphabet that we are talking about here. That's the letter that suffered the transposition. Not hard or soft sounds.

And my edition of Chambers tells me that 'Б' usually transliterates as the second letter of the (Latin) alphabet.

The fountain of knowledge that is Wikipedia seems to concur:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be_(Cyrillic)

Anyway .. no matter ... let Бyegones Бe Бyegones ... and we can remain the Бest of Бuddies.

[contendo]

Having taken a long time to fill in the first two words, once there I found it relatively plain sailing to fill the rest of the grid. Once you have two sides of a square the rest of the word is not too difficult with the help of the various aids. I still have to complete the final eight letters of the observation but am nearly there.
I must say I think the best crosswords have the virtue of economy. The extra verbiage in this one leaves a sense of dissatisfaction.

[emcee]

As to 4201, I used Б -- wonder whether it will be marked wrong too?

[pushmi-pullyu]

Having got stuck on 4201 and 4202 and not even attempted 4203 I was beginning to think I should just throw in the towel altogether, so thank you Triple for a puzzle which if not inspiring was at least do-able.

[Cruncher]

I'm one of the smug bUGGERS who got 4201 correct - but never finished the Turing Machine so shan't be waiting for that ever-elusive dinner invitation next year. I thought this was nicely put together but am impressed by anyone who did this longhand - and would slightly wonder why they bothered. Once a couple of clues were in place Wordmatcher sorted the rest out in about half an hour. Maybe the thought police at Listener HQ have all our computers tapped so that they can sift out those of us who resorted to electronic means...

[BlackHugh]

I am afraid I am one of the unsmug buggers who solved both 4198 and 4201 but have been marked as failures. I am comparing this to the recent GCSE English results-fiasco. I suspect GHQ at St. Albans has decided that the premier crossword puzzle has been getting too many correct solutions and has secretly raised the barrier. :-)