Listener 4179: O Gather Twelve by Augeas

[Zabadak]

Back to the relatively easy ones then, though I think the final step's a bit of a swine if the subject's not all that familiar. One of those with a reasonably straightforward grid fill (with one slightly ambiguous answer that could throw you off the whole track) and then at least the potential for staring into space for a while waiting the proverbial descent of the small change.
Best wishes to all, thanks to Augeas for working it all out, and the best of British to our noble scorer when he comes to check the rather random looking results.

[magichour]

Also here with a completed grid and yet to identify the theme. Along with others, have found this slightly underwhelming. Once the obvious had been identified, it became a bit of a slog. Careful checking needed before submission here. In the meantime, there's football to watch while the subconscious ponders what the theme is supposed to be.

[dr b]

Well, let me cut through all the euphemisms that have been used up to this point ("a bit of a swine"?) and say this was the worst Listener I have ever worked (2+ years now). Clues on the easy side, nature of clashes easy to see, and then an endgame where you either know the theme, in which case the whole puzzle is easy, or you've never heard of it, in which case I don't see any particular reason that the title or method of resolving the clashes will lead to to it. (Note: I found the theme by asking someone, "hey, what's the theme?")

Any challengers for the Z Cup this week? Hmmm? Anybody?

[Zabadak]

Hi DrB. I'm only not a candidate because I got the theme pretty soon after completing the grid. This is precisely the sort of jump that launched the Z cup in the first place: you could sit and stare at this for ages and not get a sniff.

[tenflags]

well I normally stick up for setters as it's easy to criticise - less easy to do, but I have to agree that this didn't enthral me I'm afraid.

[tilbee]

Having slogged through this afternoon, I am now where starwalker was yesterday evening wondering "what is the point ?".

[Stavrolex]

Leaping (tentatively) to Augeas's defence, the nature of the theme was signalled pretty prominently in the grid, with at least 2 other entries (ignoring clashes) suggesting connections with the same discipline. I was maybe fortunate in being familiar with the theme, but I'm puzzled by the suggestion that it is in Chambers as I can't find it in either 2003 edition (BRB or CD-ROM). I think the whole thing would have been more satisfying if there had been some sort of direct link between the theme and the nature of the clashes (in the real world not all combinations are possible of course). I was really hoping that the coiner of the term would make an appearance somewhere, but I've given up looking. As for this being the worst Listener in the last 2 years, I beg to differ...oh, and 27 ac made me smile.

[tilbee]

Stavrolex, it is certainly referenced in latest edition, have not checked 2003 version.

[magichour]

Haven't been posting here long enough to get the reference to the Z cup.

Given, from the various posts on here, that the theme has nothing to do with the title, the method of entry or indeed much else, it looks like one to put to one side for a few days. There was precious little reward in the grid fill. Oh well.

[teuchter2]

Still two clues to solve and no idea about the theme as yet. I am not encouraged by the comments posted so far, but enjoyed the draw with Celtic, so who cares?!
One bit of enjoyment on a Saturday is surely sufficient.

[IainGrace]

Teuchter 2, agreed. Magichour, the theme and the title are intimately connected. Stavrolex, agree with comments - this is a subject dear to the heart of the Grace of IainGrace. Other comments a bit unfair - but agree it was a one sitting solve. Just catching up, having had little time to look at 4178 (to which we will now return as comments suggest it is a good one) and having abandoned 4177 as of little interest. At least we know already that we are not contenders for 2012 All Correct.

[Zabadak]

Stavrolex: I was very careful with the comment about the BRB. Mine is the electronic 2003 version, and I didn't find it just by chucking it in the search box. But it is there.

[Zabadak]

magichour: Modesty prevents me saying which of our contributors the Z cup is named after, but to qualify you have to present a truly sincere grump about the puzzle in question. Plenty of contenders this week: I would normally be amongst them on this sort of puzzle because it's perfectly possible to solve the grid and stare in frustration at the final step. It's also possible (as I did not all that long ago when the cup was first presented) to believe that you have an answer that satisfies the preamble but which in fact misses the point altogether. This week, I'm the smug git who saw it fairly quickly and is trying not to annoy (still further) those to whom it is still opaque.

[Charpy]

magichour: Augeas has been very truthful when he says that the title cryptically represents the theme, as I now realise.

[the_heisman]

I agree that the clashes were a little tedious to work through and no doubt also to check. I was pleased that I seemed to have successfully googled the theme - which was entirely new to me - but then disturbed to see from Z that it is in the BRB. I can't find it in my App version. Good fun and some nice
clues but I thought perhaps more could have been made of the clashes - that being said I have no idea how hard that would be to devise.

[Coalminers]

I think you have all been very hard on poor Augeas. He puts himself out considerably for our entertainment, and this is how we treat him. In his partial defence, TheBear69, I can see absolutely nothing wrong with 8d.

[the_heisman]

Hard copy BRB to the rescue - all done. Not looking forward to checking the clashes

[silversolver]

Phew - got there in the end and just in time to settle down in front of the rugby... A new theme for me (thank goodness for Google)

[word_cross]

twigged the theme very early on, and then it was just about the grid-fill, which didn't seem totally relevant, but hey ho. nothing too taxing

[SallyR]

My first post on here for quite a while. I had a break from the Listener to try to get my life back but the addiction was a bit too strong so I am back! Managed to do last week's with a bit of help from a kindly soul on this board and thought for a while that this week would be the same experience - a completed grid but no idea what to do next. However the light has just dawned, thank goodness, another week of staring at a full grid would have driven me mad!

[tilbee]

Does anyone have a link to a calculator that works in different bases (in this case 6) ? Being stuck in most weekend with flu, rain pouring outside, and having blitzed through the wordy ones, I have decided to "treat" myself to the numerical in the Magpie.