Listener 4178 Confused by Tea Leaves

[Ruthrobin]

Where is everybody? Posting somewhere else? What an intricate construction. I have been delighted by the subtlety of this and now have a full and functioning grid but I am wondering how it fulfilled all the stages expressed in the preamble. Tea Leaves has done it again - thank you!

[AndrewG-S]

Charpy, welcome to the site - a challenging but rewarding crossword to pick for you first post.

[sunny-dave]

Wow - after a long weekend of merriment/hangover/merriment (repeat until fade) - I finally got stuck into this this morning.

Probably my favourite puzzle since my return from the wilderness last October. Great clueing, multiple PDMs as every word of the title and preamble clicked into place - all done except a couple of down clues to totally nail down for my own satisfaction.

Thanks Tea Leaves

[bobbycollins]

Full grid - no clashes - feeling thick (and one wordplay bemusement - eighth down)

[sunny-dave]

Purdah rules on the clashes - or the Listener PC Police will (quite rightly) pounce.

The eighth down is not the best of clues (IMHO) but all the wordplay is decodable in Chambers if you read all the relevant definition(s) for the answer(s) ...

...sorry about the pedantic (s) but trying to avoid identifying the clue.

[Coalminers]

Finally crept over the line, and think I understand every last word of the preamble. The last bit was the "disinctly thematic appearance", which I like a lot, but I'm not going to dare adding it to my submission. Great crossword, but I hope they don't become too much more difficult than that.

[Charpy]

bobbycollins.
8th down clue: No problem with the word play if you use the BRB, but the definition is a long way short of explicit in my view. Agree with sunny-dave - I'm not a fan of this clue.

[Charpy]

Andrew G-S
Belated, thanks for your welcome which I've just seen.

[Coalminers]

Yes, welcome Charpy...it's always good to see new contributors. Although these may be your first posts, you are obviously an experienced Listener solver and a keen reader of the comments on here....not only have you solved a pretty challenging crossword, but you're also using all the right lingo!

[word_cross]

Coalminers - I'm with you on the 'thematic appearance' - I'm sure I know what it is, but I'm not going to take any risks by adding something optional that could be wrong!

[Charpy]

Coalminers:
Thanks for your kind welcome, but you've got me worried now. I assumed that, since the bit beneath was optional, it wouldn't matter if I got it wrong. So I foolishly included it in the solution which I've already posted. Silly of me really, knowing how tough (though generally fair) John Green can be with his adjudications. I'll remember next time.

[contendo]

Before anyone complains, I don't think I'm revealing anything I shouldn't, nor am I asking for help, but I just find it strange that the preamble says that there will be a clash in every cell and yet, like others, I have filled the grid (apart from 2 squares yet to be solved) without any clashes.
I'm still 3 words short in the message from the missing words and what I have doesn't really lead to a coherent instruction. Clearly still some way to go. I might make it into the Thursday club.

[Ruthrobin]

Charpy, I suspect that it was 'optional' as there is certainly some ambiguity about what you might enter and I can't imagine that those of us who put something under our grid will be 'marked wrong' if it doesn't exactly match what might be expected. Yes, welcome indeed!

[tramart]

contendo - I certainly have a clash in every cell, although still short of the finish. What I don't yet understand is the relevance of the last 4 words of the instruction. More than happy to wait until it 'clicks' (not keen on 'PDM').

[contendo]

Tramart - No, I don't understand the last 4 words of the instruction either, but then I don't understand most of it. However I have a full grid now with no clashes, including a bit that could be the thematic appearance of the setter, and wonder whether to submit it as it stands or whether I need to jump a few more hurdles.

[Staurologist]

Late starting as usual, I found myself working slowly through this one, letting each clue permeate my thoughts, while I got on with other work, allowing my subconscious to find the solutions. A rather curious experience, but quietly rewarding in the end, despite feeling a bit bruised by it all. Stunning construction, to be sure, but my feelings about this one were coloured by the fact that the cross-checking is so thorough that one didn't have to understand all the clue answers to work out what to do. No doubt a deliberate trade-off by Tea Leaves in favour of truly virtuosic construction. At least one wasn't given any choice whatsoever in the end-game.

[Charpy]

Ruthrobin - Thanks for welcome and reassurance, especially as an ambiguities in the last bit had completely escaped me.

[Tarraco2]

It’s very reassuring reading all your posts and knowing we are not the only sufferers! We too have a full grid in spite of having 4 clues unsolved and no real understanding of the instruction – it’s those last 4 pesky words that are doing for us. I think we’ll call it a day and concede victory to Tea Leaves.

[Walterloo]

My early post on this told of my seeing the PDM early enough for me to finish the final grid, of which I am 99% certain I have done correctly. Having read numerous posts on here I see now that others have finished in exactly the same way i.e no clashed. I didn't find a single one and I still can't see how the clashes are discovered. A still excellent puzzle but a curious one for the reasons above. I understand the message, including the last 4 words, and the violence, but no idea of which word cryptically hints at how to resolve the clashes I never found! Never mind, I'm pleased to have finished the race even though my trainers were on backwards and the route was strewn with signposts I either followed or bypassed.

Anyway, the new Magpie has arrived and it contains an A (easy) grade prize puzzle and a numerical I may even be able to tackle. Woohoo!

[magichour]

Phew. A subtle hint made me re-examine something I hadn't looked at properly, and suddenly it all fell into place. I wasn't going to bother expending effort on the optional aspect of the solution, but upon filling in my final grid for entry, it came to me and raised a big grin.

I agree with the earlier comments regarding a loose definition in one clue, and think that the preamble may have almost over-complicated aspects of the solution, but otherwise this was a delightfully constructed puzzle.

I do think that it is inadvisable to give proof of one's solving with the wording of posts in these threads, which could potentially give too much away to other solvers, and guess perhaps that the pleas not to do so may need to be privately directed to those they are intended to reach.

[JackDeCrow]

Doh - just understood the clashes! What a relief! One of those puzzles that has really been doing my head in but now seems funny and clever. Thanks Tea Leaves. Don't think I'll risk the addition either, although chuckling about it, not least because below the grid seems an odd place to put it!