Crosswords0 min ago
Do declining standards matter?
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Does it matter that even BBC newsreaders don't know the difference between singular and plural? For instance - the Government 'are' - instead of 'is' - it's a singular Government. Estate agents frequently publish "comprising of", and 'me and my friends' is now accepted by the majority (but not by all) as correct English. Don't get me onto 'innit' and 'I am like . . . . ' and an apostrophes appearing where it's just a plural word.
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a singular government of plural people. It depends whether you see it as acting in unison (which it hardly seems to be doing at present) or as separate individuals. It's often said that a football club is singular but the team are plural (Arsenal is a big club/Arsenal are playing like wallies).
But comprised of, yes.... and there was a thread about apostrophes the other day, though I can't remember where.
But comprised of, yes.... and there was a thread about apostrophes the other day, though I can't remember where.
Dunwerkin, weekly in The Times, a �Feedback' column responds to readers' complaints. On March 10th 2007, one reader had written (abbreviated)...
"I am writing to highlight the increasing incorrect use of collective nouns with plural verbs...'the team are doing this' or �England are doing that'..."
The editor responded...
"Actually it isn't incorrect. To quote Gowers: �In using collective words or nouns of multitude (department, government, committee and the like), there is no rule; either a singular or a plural verb may be used.'"
The Gowers referred to was Sir Ernest Gowers, the author of The Complete Plain Words. His words are echoed by those of the editor of Fowler's Modern English Usage, who expresses the selfsame thought as, "In British English, collective nouns may be correctly followed by either a singular or a plural verb."
These two publications have long been regarded as �bibles' of current English usage. Despite that, every now and then, someone comes along and complains about something which is totally correct!
We are free to write, "The jury retires to consider its verdict today" or "The jury retire to consider their verdict today." No one in his right mind would say, "The committee leaves its hats in the hall", though that's what the singular-verb brigade must logically demand.
Believe me...the choice of singular/plural agreement is up to the individual...everyone who actually knows says so!
'Comprise of'' has been in use for well over a century. I agree that it doesn't sound right, but it looks as if it's here to stay.
'Innit' is just really an abbreviation of 'isn't it' which is itself an abbreviation.
Usage is king and it probably won't be too long before 'could of'' in place of 'could've' becomes acceptable. too, however much purists (pedants?) might complain.
"I am writing to highlight the increasing incorrect use of collective nouns with plural verbs...'the team are doing this' or �England are doing that'..."
The editor responded...
"Actually it isn't incorrect. To quote Gowers: �In using collective words or nouns of multitude (department, government, committee and the like), there is no rule; either a singular or a plural verb may be used.'"
The Gowers referred to was Sir Ernest Gowers, the author of The Complete Plain Words. His words are echoed by those of the editor of Fowler's Modern English Usage, who expresses the selfsame thought as, "In British English, collective nouns may be correctly followed by either a singular or a plural verb."
These two publications have long been regarded as �bibles' of current English usage. Despite that, every now and then, someone comes along and complains about something which is totally correct!
We are free to write, "The jury retires to consider its verdict today" or "The jury retire to consider their verdict today." No one in his right mind would say, "The committee leaves its hats in the hall", though that's what the singular-verb brigade must logically demand.
Believe me...the choice of singular/plural agreement is up to the individual...everyone who actually knows says so!
'Comprise of'' has been in use for well over a century. I agree that it doesn't sound right, but it looks as if it's here to stay.
'Innit' is just really an abbreviation of 'isn't it' which is itself an abbreviation.
Usage is king and it probably won't be too long before 'could of'' in place of 'could've' becomes acceptable. too, however much purists (pedants?) might complain.
Thank you all for your considered responses. I know that I have become a bit of a dinosaur as far as the use and abuse of the English language is concerned - and yes, pedant is probably appropriate. I will just have to learn to live with the fact that to some people it doesn't matter one little bit ! "Language is an archeological vehicle . . . the language we speak is a whole palimpsest of human effort and history" (Quote by Russel Hoban).
I wouldn't want you to think, Dunwerkin, that I'm someone to whom "it doesn't matter one little bit" what becomes of the English language. 'Could of' for 'could've', for example, is clearly a detestable barbarism and should be considered as such. So, let's always object to it. However, I was trying to make two key points...a) we objectors will almost certainly be 'outvoted' by a combination of ignorance and time...and b) it doesn't help our cause if we object to things which aren't actually wrong.
You and I are on the same side, really. Cheers
You and I are on the same side, really. Cheers
No need to apologise Quizmonster. I wasn't getting at you with the comment - more the faceless, nameless thousands who really don't give a *&@/ !! I was surprised not to have received a message from one of that category berating me for being petty and narrow minded etc. etc. It seems that there are a band of people waiting to be offended - glad you are not one of them.
For example, I would ask, "What does the property comprise?" And I'd expect the estate agent to say, "It comprises hall, living-room, kitchen, closet downstairs and three bedrooms, bathroom and attic upstairs" or some such response. I wouldn't expect either of us to use the word 'of' in association with 'comprise' at all. (In such a context, 'comprise' - from French 'compris' - simply means 'include'.)
Of course, in reality, I would probably avoid the perceived 'problem' by asking, "What does the property consist of?"
Of course, in reality, I would probably avoid the perceived 'problem' by asking, "What does the property consist of?"
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