Stronger National Identity

[Coldicote]

At a recent conference in Munich, David Cameron argued that the UK needed a stronger national identity. He also said, " We need to be clear: Islamist extremism and Islam are not the same thing," How do readers suggest we create a stronger national identity? It will need something more than just flying the flag and playng the National Anthem.

[DTCwordfan]

I was Scottish educated but actually want to see more Englishness as I have indicated before. The Scots and Welsh have their own stronger identity. So if I was PM here is the list

(i) Political definition and seperation
(ii) national anthem - land of hope and glory
(iii) do away with MayDay replace with St George's Day or Shakespeare's Day (both the 23rd of April
(iv) Introduce Churchill Day as they have been talking more about an Autumn Day
(v) More promotion of English food and wine through establishing regional food centres and festivals - encourage English regions to lead on this - stronger defence on intellectual property on what are English foods (like the recent rulings on Cornish Pasties & Melton Mowbray pies)
(vi) With the limited funds, promote more English driven art festivals and encourage major galleries like the Tate to suscribe to this.
(vii) Ditto music with an emphasis on English musicians, be it orchestral, jazz whatever and throw London theatre in here
(vii) a major review of the way tourism promotes itself
(viii) actually teach English history and the facts/stories etc behind how our society was evolved, rather than focusing just on sociological aspects and neo-history
(ix) sack Rowan Williams and look for a peoper leader who can similarly look at the CofE and reposition it to be the CofE to the values of English people and then let any Episcopalians come along
(x) Major review to the relevance and effectiveness of quasi-quangos like English Heritage and the National Trust to get (i) more sensible assessments on our heritage, (ii) less red tape and more speed to accepting changes as the current system deters building improvement (iii) presenting the history of their portfolio to visitors (iv) and publicity
(xi) giving the Queen more income from the Royal Estates to allow the refurbishment of her buildings portfolio in return for more accessibility and history of

[DTCwordfan]

And encouraging our local communities/towns to promote their true heritage - for example Truro had some daft (albeit colourful) cow sculpture fest - what the sweet fa does Truro have to do with cows? Nothing. Stannaries yes.......there is a vast heritage to be touched on by our major and minor towns - not just GLT festivals...... sensible fests too like the Notting Hill Carnival.

This is just a starter - I could think of a lot more.......

[e.crespo]

pixi, I understand that you feel women are treated well under Sharia, I don't, but what about the inheritance rights of children? From what I understood, girls inherit nothing it all goes to the sons, in the case I saw on BBC2, the youngest child, a boy, and he was supposed to look after his sisters? I think we feel that there is a problem with disaffected Moslem young men therefore the influence of 'equal' women, never seen at any important gatherings can only be a force for good surely? Perhaps I'm going off topic, but we need to make sure that everyone in this country is treated equally and as a woman I am appalled that we operate a seperate legal system for Moslem and some Jewish women. How are they represented fairly in our nation? We all need to sing from the same song sheet, all children doing the same things at school, dressed in the same way, to a degree, and enjoying the same participation in sports and activities, the children hold the key in a cohesive national identity. It's too late for many adults.

[DTCwordfan]

So what countries in the world offer multicultural respects and still maintain a national identity - that's what we can look at for ideas? Being rheotorical, Canada and Oz come to mind..............possibly NZ. Canada even has dual legals systems with its English federal law and local French law for Quebec; the latter which is, of course a legacy of British colonialisation in the 18thC - keep the local law system or tribal law and impose English law over it.

[modeller]

In order to have a strong National Identity you also need strong common values. The bigger a country and the more diverse it is, the more difficult that becomes. . Even if you turn the clock back to before War II people divided themselves . The Scots , Welsh , Irish and the English felt different from each other and England divided itself into North and South . Nowadays with 10-20% of the population being of a different race,colour and creed the difference between us is far greater than what holds us together.
In fact we are encouraged to keep ourselves separate by going to separate faith schools, ,places of worship , community centres etc ,all paid for by the state. These facts helped to perpetuate the divisions in N Ireland and to a lesser extent in Scotland and parts of England

.To answer the question I think it's too late. The PC brigade in all parties have brought about this division and the reaction is in the form of the EDL the UAF.and extremism .

[Coldicote]

Thank you all for an interesting discussion .... and DTcrosswordfan I wonder if you have considered standing for election!!

[e.crespo]

pixi, I'm sorry for the confusion, but I understand that in Sharia law and in 'Jewish' courts, I think they are concerned with family law and the division of assets etc. That is the law I find repellant, let's bring up all children with equal rights and aspirations. They are the future and let's also get rid of religiously divisive schools, we can't have a better national identity if we allow a creeping separation between communities i.e. family law and education.

[modeller]

Sharia Law is not a single law it varies between the various countries and between Shia and Sunni. It is derived from the Koran and Haddith , the latter being how Mohammed (pbuh ) practiced it during his life. Sharia Law does not separate the Koran from the State it is all pervading in every day life . However in practice its application has been interpreted and reinterpreted over the centuries. As has the bible. Some countries have partly separated SL from the State's law such as Turkey , others had separated but have now reintroduced it. Iran and SA are probably the strictest but Sudan and Uganda are proably the most brutal.

However before you condem it please remember here in Europe right up to the 16th century
we were as bad if not worse and even after the reformation up to the 19th century people were put to death for their religious beliefs .

[e.crespo]

modeller, why shouldn't one condemn Sharia law, the very fact that it has taken women in Britain at least say one or two thousand to achieve equality in law, who would want a patriarchal system of determining women's worth. I notice that it is men who most often defend Sharia law i.e. Rowan Williams, Prince Charles and modeller.
As far as I'm concerned, what happened in Britain centuries ago is history what happens now and in the future is key. What does it matter what happens in other countries, I am most concerned about children, as they are the future and girls are surely as important as boys, don't you think?
jj

[e.crespo]

Forgive me, in my last post ^^^ I missed out years from my first sentence. I meant one or two thousand years!

[Lonnie]

Afraid I haven't read any of the responses, but Cameron is very, very wrong.Islamist extremist and Islam ARE the same thing.

Yes, An awful lot of Muslims are living in this country peacably, but Mohamed said kill Christians and Jews wherever you find them.

There is no room for debate or negotiation in this, it makes no difference how peaceful a Muslim is, even if he hasn't tried to convert you, a true Muslim, one that follows the Qu'ran, Hadith and Mohameds sayings, regardless of what they say, or how they act, will regard you as an enemy.

As for National Identity, unless you get rid of Political Correctness, its a lost cause.

[dotty.]

Lonnie??? hello, hows you doing? Long time no pixels!

[dotty.]

you're just stubborn pix

[Lonnie]

Hi dotty, yes, I rarely come on now, but its always nice to see names from the distant past. Home situation,

pixi- in answer to your query, its because they haven't yet taken over, but they will

[modeller]

e.crespo Did I say you shouldn't condem it ?
Note: the word:before. So don't be so presumptuous !
I said // However, before, you condem it please remember here in Europe right up to the 16th century we were as bad if not worse and even after the reformation up to the 19th century people were put to death for their religious beliefs .//
Of course we should condem it but we shouldn't adopt a holier than thou attitude when we were as bad not so long ago.