with the recent bombs on the planes...

[stokemaveric]

can we afford to stop the war against terror??

[Andyvon]

Well, history shows it can't really be won. History has shown that you can't beat an enemy that can't be seen and hides among a local populace. The US found that in Vietnam, the UK with the IRA, the Soviets with the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan etc. The only times guerilla wars have been won by the authorities was in Argentina in the 1970s and Kitchener's 'drives' in the Boer War in 1902. Those conflicts were only successful as it was recognised that large numbers of innocent civilians would have to be swept up to catch the terrorists in the same net. The US - or the West in general - can't really hope to succeed against jihadists all the time they worry about upsetting the Islamic populace.

It's all a hornet's nest, not only of Bush and Blair's making, but of Islam's disgust with how Western culture and society has degenerated. It's best for the average person to try to not get involved - but that's no answer. How it'll all end I can't imagine.

[stokemaveric]

agreed andyvon...there doesnt seem to be an end in sight either..i think its just a matter of time before al queada or some other splinter group launch another ''spectacular'' somewhere in europe or the u.s..but we cannot afford to withdraw our brave troops from afghanistan or any other terrorist hot spot im afraid as that will only open the door for more terrorists to emerge,and that is not to mention ''home grown terrorists'' as you rightly say you cant imagine how it will all end

[Andyvon]

The expression "a wolf by the ears" spings to mind Stokemaveric. You are quite right that we can't back out of areas like Afghanistan, or the general security situation, as al-Qaeda will just surge into the vacuum. The problem is, they seem to have unlimited time, patience and funds. I don't think anyone really knows how to end it.

[rojash]

"but we cannot afford to withdraw our brave troops from afghanistan or any other terrorist hot spot im afraid as that will only open the door for more terrorists to emerge"

I wonder what you think inspired the terrorists in the first place?

If people stick their hands in hornet's nests they shouldn't really be surprised if they get attacked by hornets.

[jno]

Andyvon, I think you could add Peru and Sri Lanka to your shortlist: both the Shining Path and Tamil Tigers lost. (Though they may just prove to have been suppressed, I don't know.)

[birdie1971]

You can't have a 'War On Terror'. The very idea is preposterous. The phrase is nonsensical. You can't declare war on such an abstract concept.

We have to say openly and honestly what we mean when phrases such as, “War On Terror” are spoken repeatedly on the news... don't we?


Why don't we call 'it' what 'it' is?

Fundamentalist Islamic lunacy.

I nearly wrote 'Fundamentalist religious lunacy' but then I remembered that no other mainstream religion in modern times has adherents who have indiscriminately murdered innocent people on a vast scale and continues to be a constant threat to the liberty and safety of anyone who doesn't regularly pray to Allah.

[Andyvon]

Well, I wrote Jihadists Birdie. You are right of course jno, but mine was just a very short list for examples. There have been plenty of others throughout history.

You've got a good point rojash. G.W. Bush chose to ignore the cool and restrained example of his father who didn't poke the nest. Speaking to Muslims I know many tell me they abhore the way Western culture and society has collapsed. They don't like the West's acceptence of homosexuals, collapse of the family unit, girls' sexual freedom etc. It's plain that was the inspiration for bin Laden, although the subject is always avoided.

[tamborine]

dont buy any toners for a while, they're boobi-trapped.

[anotheoldgit]

rojash

/// I wonder what you think inspired the terrorists in the first place? ///

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't there terrorists, before we put our hands into the hornets nest?

[237SJ]

Whether we stop the war on terror or not, it won`t stop people putting bombs on planes unfortunately.

[rojash]

AOG "Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't there terrorists, before we put our hands into the hornets nest? "
Yes, mate, but prior to 9/11, most international terrorism was carried by out by the US, either by the CIA or by deniable agents of the CIA. Check out the support for (and subsequent betrayal of) the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan prior to, and following the USSR invasion.
You might like to read this interview with President Jimmy Carter's National Security Adviser, who is quite proud of the fact, that they had the deliberate intention of inciting the Russian invasion:
http://www.globalrese...articles/BRZ110A.html

[Andyvon]

Of course there have always been terrorists AOG. Guerrilla warfare is the only effective method by which a smaller and weaker force can oppose a larger and more sophisticated power. The Romans had no end of battles with partisans across the empire, as did the European empires, the Third Reich etc. Look at the trouble we had in the UK with just one or two four-man IRA cells operating somewhere in the UK. Al-Qaeda is no different. I would never defend people like that, but I can understand why they operate as they do. How else can individuals be effective against Nimitz class aircraft carriers, cruise missiles, B-52s and Stealth technology?

You are right about the Tamil Tigers jno. It seems they were eventually overrun. However, I don't know what happened to Shining Path. After all their vicious attacks on foreigners and the Peruvian government, they just seemed to disappear. We just don't hear about them any more.

You are right about the 'War on Terror' Birdie. I was aghast when Bush and Blair announced they would tackle terrorism around the world. Excuse me Mr. Bush, didn't you forget the IRA?! The US funded much of the IRA campaign for 30 years and did nothing to stop NORAID, or arrest Irish killers walking US streets with impunity so that they didn't upset 'Irish-Americans'. Then the US expected the UK to leap to their side when someone attacked them and they suddenly decided they didn't like terrorism after all! That, after bin Laden and the Mujahadeen were funded and trained by the US in the first place! Even then, Bush and Blair never included the IRA in the 'War on Terror'.

[jno]

none the less, Andyvon, I believe that the US authorities did take action against the IRA, discouraging the money collections in Irish pub that had helped keep them afloat and refusing to meet their representatives in the White House as had previously happened. Result: something close to a settlement over Ulster (as far as I can tell the remaining terrorist splinter groups are very small). So actually, something has come out of the war on terror, abstract noun or not.

Shining Path seem to be still struggling along

http://en.wikipedia.o...entury_and_resurgence

[Andyvon]

True Jno. The world moves on after all.

It's good the US did actually do something as so many people in the UK were angry at the time when the US refused to do anything. I still know people who won't set foot in a McDonalds - and it's not because of the rubbish they serve! However, the Good Friday Agreement was the result and it's obviously worked very well. I think that was Tony Blair's greatest achievement.