Quizzes & Puzzles3 mins ago
Are you all still so gullible?
21 Answers
All you people who praised Sarkozy for banning the burkha, do you not see where it's heading?
http://www.irishexami...ld/kfcwidmhgbmh/rss2/
Ask yourself why it is that in a country like France where women earn much less than men, where the economy is running badly, where accusations of police brutality (killings) against the poor and the immigrant, where the government itself is under investigation for fraud it decides to attack another unpopular minority?
Not as a distraction, surely?
I wonder who'll be next?
My money's on the trade unionists.
http://www.irishexami...ld/kfcwidmhgbmh/rss2/
Ask yourself why it is that in a country like France where women earn much less than men, where the economy is running badly, where accusations of police brutality (killings) against the poor and the immigrant, where the government itself is under investigation for fraud it decides to attack another unpopular minority?
Not as a distraction, surely?
I wonder who'll be next?
My money's on the trade unionists.
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The Burka demeans women Everton. It is a symbol of male dominance over women. Women did not invent the Burka – men did that. Men created the idea that a woman should completely cover her body (taking the most extreme interpretation from the Koran that women should, “... dress modestly...) in order that she could not 'tempt' men into pre-marital sex, adulatory or rape. The wearing of the Burka is all about what's best for the man, not what's best or even reasonable for the woman.
And to answer your question Everton, yes I can see where the France situation is going. However, I think the destination falls short of where you think it's terminus is.
And to answer your question Everton, yes I can see where the France situation is going. However, I think the destination falls short of where you think it's terminus is.
Well, we'll see what scale of public protest there is. France has a long tradition of protest marches and demonstrations on a grand scale, which the government of the day has, equally traditionally, paid attention to (unlike, in general, Britain's governments).Sarkozy must be betting on no such protests.
At a purely practical level it is nonsensical, though possibly well-intentioned and not mere vote-getting. The problem is not the women who'll get fined but the men who have persuaded or compelled them to wear the burqa. If the women don't pay what will the French do? Imprison them? Sarkozy seems fond of the impractical. His deporting Romas to Bucharest seems to be one example. How is he going to stop the citizens of another EU state, as these prima facie are, coming straight back to France?
As to police brutality, it's not as bad as it was 40 years ago when I first lived there (some consolation that is!)
At a purely practical level it is nonsensical, though possibly well-intentioned and not mere vote-getting. The problem is not the women who'll get fined but the men who have persuaded or compelled them to wear the burqa. If the women don't pay what will the French do? Imprison them? Sarkozy seems fond of the impractical. His deporting Romas to Bucharest seems to be one example. How is he going to stop the citizens of another EU state, as these prima facie are, coming straight back to France?
As to police brutality, it's not as bad as it was 40 years ago when I first lived there (some consolation that is!)
France nearly voted in Jean Marie Le Penn a few years ago, it's electorate is veering over to the hard right, Sarkozy can see this so is simply trying to steal votes off the Fronte Nationale.
As for it's final destination, it's merely a journey of attacking unpopular minorities that will result in the end as an attack on the poor and the vulnerable.
It'll start with pensions reform.
As for it's final destination, it's merely a journey of attacking unpopular minorities that will result in the end as an attack on the poor and the vulnerable.
It'll start with pensions reform.
My worry is that having been expelled from France they will decide to come to Britain instead. I have heard mutterings that they were told to do just that.
As they are allowed by EU law to travel about Europe then how are we expected to cope with them? In Peterborough they are sleeping rough in the middle of roundabouts. A firm hand is the only answer and Sarkozy has shown how to do it.
As they are allowed by EU law to travel about Europe then how are we expected to cope with them? In Peterborough they are sleeping rough in the middle of roundabouts. A firm hand is the only answer and Sarkozy has shown how to do it.
Well so far the answer appears to be yes.
You don't get it do you, they pick on the small. the weak, the poor and the unpopular, and all you seals will clap along, and then they'll do something to you, and there'll be noone left.
You talk about trade unioinsts ruining the economy, ahem, it's the CEOs ofthe banks that have screwed up the economy, not a lefty amongst them.
Look at French protestors, the truck drivers force blockades because of rising fuel prices, none of you would support such behaviour here, added to that, they're mostly self employed.
Look at French farmers (self employed), they force blockades because of falling prices, now look at our farmers, they spread milk over fields because it costs them more to sell it to the supermarkets, they're being underpaid for beef now, it's not the trade unionists who are causing the trouble, it's the immigrants either.
But they'll get the blame.
You don't get it do you, they pick on the small. the weak, the poor and the unpopular, and all you seals will clap along, and then they'll do something to you, and there'll be noone left.
You talk about trade unioinsts ruining the economy, ahem, it's the CEOs ofthe banks that have screwed up the economy, not a lefty amongst them.
Look at French protestors, the truck drivers force blockades because of rising fuel prices, none of you would support such behaviour here, added to that, they're mostly self employed.
Look at French farmers (self employed), they force blockades because of falling prices, now look at our farmers, they spread milk over fields because it costs them more to sell it to the supermarkets, they're being underpaid for beef now, it's not the trade unionists who are causing the trouble, it's the immigrants either.
But they'll get the blame.
Everton - “Look at French protesters, the truck drivers force blockades because of rising fuel prices, none of you would support such behaviour here...”
Really? You seem very sure about that. How do you know how I feel about fuel protests?
Your quote - “You talk about trade unionists ruining the economy...”.
Who does?
Your quote - “...all you seals will clap along, and then they'll do something to you, and there'll be none left...”
Okay. You appear to be having an argument with yourself. I suggest that you calm down and put up another post when you're feeling better.
Really? You seem very sure about that. How do you know how I feel about fuel protests?
Your quote - “You talk about trade unionists ruining the economy...”.
Who does?
Your quote - “...all you seals will clap along, and then they'll do something to you, and there'll be none left...”
Okay. You appear to be having an argument with yourself. I suggest that you calm down and put up another post when you're feeling better.
I don't know how you feel about fuel protests, but when they happened here there was widespread support, it's a very common refrain that the French don't put up with the things we do.
Your quote - “You talk about trade unionists ruining the economy...”.
Who does?
R1Geezer
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(14:55 on Sat 04/Sep/10) well lets hope they start on the trade unionists, J Arthurs they are, ruination of any economy.
Birdie, you say you "can see where France is going" clearly you don't want it to stop just yet.
So you bang the drum for women's rights (good for you) completely overlooking the HUGE disparity in in the pay men and women recieve, if Sarkozy cared about inequality surely he'd seek to remedy this now?
Maybe female poverty is part of French expression, I doubt it, or maybe willing dupes and pawns like you will read the headlines and miss the sub-text.
Your quote - “You talk about trade unionists ruining the economy...”.
Who does?
R1Geezer
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(14:55 on Sat 04/Sep/10) well lets hope they start on the trade unionists, J Arthurs they are, ruination of any economy.
Birdie, you say you "can see where France is going" clearly you don't want it to stop just yet.
So you bang the drum for women's rights (good for you) completely overlooking the HUGE disparity in in the pay men and women recieve, if Sarkozy cared about inequality surely he'd seek to remedy this now?
Maybe female poverty is part of French expression, I doubt it, or maybe willing dupes and pawns like you will read the headlines and miss the sub-text.
^^^
What are you talking about? You really are at sixes and sevens here Everton. You asked an overarching question about right wing politics in France (which I answered) and then effectively accused me of ignoring the issue of equal pay for women! You seem to be suggesting that I'm somehow unconcerned about this matter. You are wrong. You claim that, “... women earn much less than men...”. Do they? I'll just have to accept that you're correct on this matter seeing as I haven't studied the disparity of pay between French male and female employees (if any exists). If women in France are routinely being paid less for doing the same work as their male counterparts, then I disapprove of this practice.
Your quote, “... or maybe willing dupes and pawns like you will read the headlines and miss the sub-text.”.
Oh please. Just because I don't agree that France is on the brink of a far right-wing Government that is going to be analogous to the Nazis does not make me a 'dupe' or a 'pawn'.
Get a grip for crying out loud.
What are you talking about? You really are at sixes and sevens here Everton. You asked an overarching question about right wing politics in France (which I answered) and then effectively accused me of ignoring the issue of equal pay for women! You seem to be suggesting that I'm somehow unconcerned about this matter. You are wrong. You claim that, “... women earn much less than men...”. Do they? I'll just have to accept that you're correct on this matter seeing as I haven't studied the disparity of pay between French male and female employees (if any exists). If women in France are routinely being paid less for doing the same work as their male counterparts, then I disapprove of this practice.
Your quote, “... or maybe willing dupes and pawns like you will read the headlines and miss the sub-text.”.
Oh please. Just because I don't agree that France is on the brink of a far right-wing Government that is going to be analogous to the Nazis does not make me a 'dupe' or a 'pawn'.
Get a grip for crying out loud.
Jno – If you read my post, I didn't suggest that Everton was wrong in his assertion that women in France are paid less than men. I even stated that I accepted his word on this matter as I haven't read anything to the contrary. France's macro economy not being my strong point – but clearly you know something I don't. Can you provide me with any links to support your statement, “... women in France have to work 79 days a year more to earn the same as men.”?
However, equal pay for women was not the main issue.
The original question suggested that France was about to descend into Nazism. I disagree with Everton's assessment of the situation.
However, equal pay for women was not the main issue.
The original question suggested that France was about to descend into Nazism. I disagree with Everton's assessment of the situation.
I haven't said France is heading towards Nazism, although if any of you picked up the loose reference to a Nazi era poem, then kudos to you (it can be easily reinterpreted as a warning for all intrusive regimes), France however is heading for a hard right nationalist government.
The burkha was/is just the thin end of the wedge, because if equality was the issue the matter of far greater importance and far greater relevance is the pay for all women in France.
Le Penn I imagine will espouse the line that the reason pay is so low is because of all these immigrants flooding in and working for less, and yet still thousands of people will swallow this guff hook line and sinker.
The burkha was/is just the thin end of the wedge, because if equality was the issue the matter of far greater importance and far greater relevance is the pay for all women in France.
Le Penn I imagine will espouse the line that the reason pay is so low is because of all these immigrants flooding in and working for less, and yet still thousands of people will swallow this guff hook line and sinker.
Jno – “took 3 seconds to find that”.
I have no reason to doubt it. But seeing as the original question only commented on the inequality of pay in France in passing, I hadn't sought it out. Thank you for indulging me with 3 seconds of your time.
Everton – I know you hadn't explicitly stated that France was heading towards Nazism but it was implicit in your posts as you have now confirmed. It's interesting that you appear to have now accepted that the burka is indeed a matter of equality by your statement which says that equal pay is of far greater relevance (the implication being that the burka is still a matter of equality nonetheless).
I actually agree with you that in terms of importance, equal pay for all women in France takes precedence over the banning of the burka. However, in these hostile economic times, resolving the disparity between male and female pay will likely cost an absolute fortune and as such, it's unlikely to be a priority for the French Government. There is no quick fix to this – more's the pity.
I still think that your French / Nazi comparison is well wide of the mark.
I have no reason to doubt it. But seeing as the original question only commented on the inequality of pay in France in passing, I hadn't sought it out. Thank you for indulging me with 3 seconds of your time.
Everton – I know you hadn't explicitly stated that France was heading towards Nazism but it was implicit in your posts as you have now confirmed. It's interesting that you appear to have now accepted that the burka is indeed a matter of equality by your statement which says that equal pay is of far greater relevance (the implication being that the burka is still a matter of equality nonetheless).
I actually agree with you that in terms of importance, equal pay for all women in France takes precedence over the banning of the burka. However, in these hostile economic times, resolving the disparity between male and female pay will likely cost an absolute fortune and as such, it's unlikely to be a priority for the French Government. There is no quick fix to this – more's the pity.
I still think that your French / Nazi comparison is well wide of the mark.
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