Well done Italy in banning the Burka.

[trt]

http://www.dailymail....30-wearing-burqa.html

Lets hope all Countries follow their rules, but I doubt if the UK will as the Government are to weak.

[naomi24]

Gromit //covering up when they go out is the norm. They take it for granted, and do not think twice about it.//

Of course they don't think twice about it because they've been conditioned to think of it as 'the norm'. Unless you're a woman, which I don't think you are, if your friends' wives wear burqas to go out in, and you've seen them unveiled and have had the opportunity to discuss this subject with them without their husbands present. I'd be very surprised indeed. The quote from the husband // I can't have other men looking at her. // In such a culture, THAT is the norm. These women don't choose it - they are indoctrinated with an archaic oppressive philosophy emanating from the dark ages - and they think these men are doing them a favour because the men tell them they are! They are living amongst us in a 21st century world, but they have no idea what free choice is because mentally they are imprisoned by the tenets of a 1500 year old book that tells them men are superior and must be obeyed, and women are inferior and must obey.

[naomi24]

Quinlad, yes, let's have more laws. How about one that says it's an offence to keep a woman imprisoned in her home to ensure that no other man sees her face?

Why has no one here has objected to this man saying he will have to confine his wife to the house? Is that acceptable then? What is she? A human being, or a pet kept only to do the bidding of her master? If the burqa, or the enforced confinement of this woman were motivated by anything other than religion, we'd have people screaming at the injustice of it all. However politically correct you may like to think you are, in a civilised society religion does not, and cannot, be allowed to take precedence over decent human principles.

[Zeuhl]

Everyone knows women have brain same size as squirrel's. :-)

[razza]

If all the countries ban it except us will that mean more of them coming here,sincerely hope not.

[naomi24]

Zeuhl, have you been reading the Koran again? :o)

[sophie_1003]

naomi, aren't we all indoctrinated? There are certain social and cultural norms we all follow for example, we tend not to go topless on beaches here but in Spain it's perfectly normal, is this expectation that women keep their tops on indoctrination? And if the burqa is banned can we also ban balaclavas and those who wear scarfs around their faces and hats in the winter?

[naomi24]

Sophie, //is this expectation that women keep their tops on indoctrination?//

If you're happy to abandon your top in Spain, clearly not.

//And if the burqa is banned can we also ban balaclavas and those who wear scarfs around their faces and hats in the winter?//

I can't see why you've included hats, but I think faces should be visible in public.

[sophie_1003]

I don't like to take my top off in Spain, it feels like I am exposing myself; I know others don't mind but that's their personal choice.
I included hats as when worn with a scarf pulled up it means the face is nearly completely covered.

[naomi24]

Nor me - but exactly. It's a free choice and they are not afraid to make that choice. Neither are they imprisoned in their own homes if that's what they choose to do.

[sophie_1003]

And Muslim women aren't afraid to make the choice to cover up when they might get stared at, ridiculed or, like the poor woman in Italy, fined for it!

[Lindylou]

I work for an emergency service and we have probs with ladies turning up for dental treatment in burqas - it has to be explained that these have to be removed so that treatment can be given. Several times (as we don't, on this particular occasion have a female dentist on duty) then the men accompanying these ladies refuse treatment on their behalf(!) These poor ladies then leave, still in obviously a lot of pain. Are there female dentists in their home countries? Or are females always refused/unable to obtain treatment? I have to say that it worries me a lot. These poor women! Do they have no say in what medical treatment they receive? This is Britain - and our laws are apparently allowing them to be refused treatment because their menfolk are not happy with them revealing their faces. Or anything else for that matter.

[123everton]

I read this story, firstly the husband sounds obnoxious.
In the Metro, it said the law was introduced in the 70s to curtail political activism but was not enforced, the mayor is anti immigration and was voted in on that pledge, anyone see the connection?

[askyourgran]

Quinlad made a good point earlier about his gran doing the household chores. I think she was around the same era as I was. It's a throw back from the 30's and 40's.then it was expected that the women do the housework while men go out to work. But some men refused to bring themselves into line when women started going out to work to augment the family income. Mr Ask doesn't demand that I do the housework or make his meals but he always says it's womens work, chauvanistic so and so. but he does lend a hand drying the dishes on Sundays.
I always get the feeling that there is no actual heartfelt love between these arranged marriage brides and their husbands, the fact that they are imported makes me think they are used and abused by them merely as household chattels.

[naomi24]

Sophie, look at Lindylou’s post below your last one. Some choice, eh?

[sophie_1003]

Yes and she states 'several times' not 'all the time', I agree that that's not the sort of situation we are used to here but that sort of thing does go on between men and their wives in English culture too, maybe not to the extent that medical treatment would be denied but we're not perfect enough to be able to criticise other culture's beliefs.

[naomi24]

Sophie, so, several times, not all the time, and that's acceptable? Let's face it, not all Muslim women suffer like this - only some of them. Oh well, that's ok then.

And it goes on within English culture too? So does that make it right? If you're not on the receiving end, apparently so. Carry on chaps - it doesn't affect me because I'm British and, unlike your ladies, I am free to speak my mind! Wake up Sophie. We're talking about human beings here - and human beings deserve better!! By supporting this appalling philosophy you are doing these women no favours at all.

[sophie_1003]

I'm not saying it makes it right, what I'm saying is people are very quick to criticise something they actually know very little about and not so quick to recognise when things aren't all nice closer to home.

[naomi24]

Sophie, if you're not saying it's right, why are you supporting it? And what do you mean 'closer to home'? Have you not realised that this is happening at home? It's a mistake to assume that everyone in the west lacks understanding, because they don't. Condoning or ignoring the unjust practices of any belief system, be it religious, political, or otherwise, results in the voluntary abandonment of our own principles of morality. I would be willing to guarantee that most people here won't be voting BNP today, and why? Because the electorate in general possesses an innate sense of right and wrong, and they know that such a political system would result in unfairness and injustice for others. When it comes to religious practices, however, our integrity is instantly discarded because we suffer under the ridiculous delusion that we must respect religious belief and its cultural traditions regardless of what it promotes Well we don't because that serves only to exacerbate ignorance, hence condoning practices that no rational person, given a really free choice, would ever find acceptable. We can deny it's happening, or that it doesn't matter - but it is, and it does.

[Lindylou]

Sophie 1003 - yes I said several times. Because, frequently, we do have female dentists on duty so then there's no problem. But, frequently!! - several times - we DON'T have a female dentist on duty, just two males. That's when the problem arises and these poor, female, patients are refused treatment by the males in their families. I really do think this is wrong. Females are people too.