ChatterBank4 mins ago
More Afghanistan War ?
How long could the war last if we continue and how much could it cost - in lives, in military and civilian casualities (physical and mental), in broken families and financially. We already cant afford to equip our soldiers properly and we're already on the brink of financial /economic meltdown due to the world banking/economic crisis .
Whats the REAL PURPOSE behind carrying on with this potentially neverending war ?
Whats the REAL PURPOSE behind carrying on with this potentially neverending war ?
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With the tactics we are using at the moment it will last for years and years.
At present it seems we are based in a fairly secure base, and sending out patrols to various villages, talking to the elders, if the Taliban are not in residence, but firing on the village if they are.The Taliban will fire back until it gets too hot for them and they then disappear, and we then return to base.
What we have got to do is first torch the poppy fields, then advance in force with armored vehicles and artillery driving them back into the mountains, where they can be discharged using the airforce.
Finally we have to advance into Pakistan either with the Pakistan Goverment's blessing or not and destroy the Taliban's training camps.
At present it seems we are based in a fairly secure base, and sending out patrols to various villages, talking to the elders, if the Taliban are not in residence, but firing on the village if they are.The Taliban will fire back until it gets too hot for them and they then disappear, and we then return to base.
What we have got to do is first torch the poppy fields, then advance in force with armored vehicles and artillery driving them back into the mountains, where they can be discharged using the airforce.
Finally we have to advance into Pakistan either with the Pakistan Goverment's blessing or not and destroy the Taliban's training camps.
The Russians could not defeat the Taliban in Afghanistan during their 10 year campaign there. The US bombed them to smithereens in their mountain hideouts and still they reappear with reinforcements. The reason is well documented. The training camps are now in Pakistan and the rebels seem to have the upper hand over the government. So the surge in spy drones by the US which pinpoint rebel hideouts by informers on the Pakistan border. Bin Laden is said to hide out there under protection.
The only solution is for Pakistan themselves to purge out these border areas with the help of the US military. This is lacking at the moment!
The only solution is for Pakistan themselves to purge out these border areas with the help of the US military. This is lacking at the moment!
AOG: Your plan is archaic. It won't work.
For one thing, 'torching the poppy fields' will destroy the income of thousands of Afghans - and they'll fall right into the arms of the insurgents.
'Pushing them back' is far easier said than done. They're insurgents - not soliders. And your 'push' will likely go through inhabited countryside and further increase insurgent activity Your tactics are exactly what cost the Americans Vietnam.
What's needed is an approach based on modern counter-insurgency (as pioneered by the British in Malaya). Ergo actual attempts to weaken support for the insurgency via active street policing operations, co-operation with tribal leaders (who know the area and understand the insurgents better) and investment in Afghanistan's development and infrastructure. Remember, Afghanistan's been in civil war for about 30 years. Any kind of progress toward stability will win support.
Unfortunately, there's a big problem with the Afghan govt. Karzai has been highly dissapointing in all of these respects. We need to pressurise them more (which is what NATO is currently doing). If he doesn't pull himself together, then we've probably lost.
As for Pakistan, some kind of diplomatic resolution is urgently needed. I don't really know enough about this situation to know what, but there must be something (there always is). We can't just keep stabbing in the dark - if innocents get killed, the insurgents get stronger.
Cont.
For one thing, 'torching the poppy fields' will destroy the income of thousands of Afghans - and they'll fall right into the arms of the insurgents.
'Pushing them back' is far easier said than done. They're insurgents - not soliders. And your 'push' will likely go through inhabited countryside and further increase insurgent activity Your tactics are exactly what cost the Americans Vietnam.
What's needed is an approach based on modern counter-insurgency (as pioneered by the British in Malaya). Ergo actual attempts to weaken support for the insurgency via active street policing operations, co-operation with tribal leaders (who know the area and understand the insurgents better) and investment in Afghanistan's development and infrastructure. Remember, Afghanistan's been in civil war for about 30 years. Any kind of progress toward stability will win support.
Unfortunately, there's a big problem with the Afghan govt. Karzai has been highly dissapointing in all of these respects. We need to pressurise them more (which is what NATO is currently doing). If he doesn't pull himself together, then we've probably lost.
As for Pakistan, some kind of diplomatic resolution is urgently needed. I don't really know enough about this situation to know what, but there must be something (there always is). We can't just keep stabbing in the dark - if innocents get killed, the insurgents get stronger.
Cont.
Unfortunately, all the above need more troops which is a problem for the British partly because nobody joins the army and partly because Afghanistan is obscenely unpopular.
Of course, it may change for the better but given the current situation my prediction would be that we're going to be stuck where we are for quite a while. And quite a lot of people are going to get killed.
Whats the REAL PURPOSE behind carrying on with this potentially neverending war ?
Beating the Taleban. That may sound kind of clich�d, but it's really very difficult (as I've shown above - it's reliant on quite a lot of different things given the nature of anti-insurgent warfare).
Of course, it may change for the better but given the current situation my prediction would be that we're going to be stuck where we are for quite a while. And quite a lot of people are going to get killed.
Whats the REAL PURPOSE behind carrying on with this potentially neverending war ?
Beating the Taleban. That may sound kind of clich�d, but it's really very difficult (as I've shown above - it's reliant on quite a lot of different things given the nature of anti-insurgent warfare).
"Torching the poppy fields"
Your excuse against doing this, is the present liberal excuse now being banded about. Wasn't the original reason they gave us for Britain taking such an active part in Afghanistan, the fact that the opium poppy fields of Afghanistan were the largest source of drugs that finally found their way onto the streets of Britain, so therefore must be destoyed?
Regarding destroying the income of thousands of Afghans. Maybe, but are you saying let them continue to produce this evil product. If so why stop at Afgans why not let our own farmers grow poppies, much more cash in this than growing corn.
Your statement that nobody joins the army is an over exaggeration, of course they do for a number of different reasons. In fact, at present there is an incease in recruitment mainly due to the fact that the job situation in the UK is getting increasingly more difficult.
No Kromo, we have tried your way for the last six years, longer than it took us to defeat the Nazi's, and we are still no further to victory. Now it is time to change tack and perhaps try it my way.
Your excuse against doing this, is the present liberal excuse now being banded about. Wasn't the original reason they gave us for Britain taking such an active part in Afghanistan, the fact that the opium poppy fields of Afghanistan were the largest source of drugs that finally found their way onto the streets of Britain, so therefore must be destoyed?
Regarding destroying the income of thousands of Afghans. Maybe, but are you saying let them continue to produce this evil product. If so why stop at Afgans why not let our own farmers grow poppies, much more cash in this than growing corn.
Your statement that nobody joins the army is an over exaggeration, of course they do for a number of different reasons. In fact, at present there is an incease in recruitment mainly due to the fact that the job situation in the UK is getting increasingly more difficult.
No Kromo, we have tried your way for the last six years, longer than it took us to defeat the Nazi's, and we are still no further to victory. Now it is time to change tack and perhaps try it my way.
largest source of drugs that finally found their way onto the streets of Britain, so therefore must be destoyed?
Also a very large amount of the drugs that's used in hospitals. The difference is who buys it and what they do with it. That's where attention needs to be focused. (In fact I can see a case for a western-funded nationalisation of the Poppy fields in Afghanistan - that way farmers are compensated and drug lords are restricted)
No Kromo, we have tried your way for the last six years
The Taleban has been pushed out of North-Western and Central Afghanistan and into the South East. In fact it's even struggling to fully operate within the country.
The reason we're stuck now is partly because there aren't enough troops on the ground (mainly due to NATO's reluctance...) and partly due to the rather dodgy border issue.
If we invaded Pakistan, we'd get slaughtered. Why? Because the Tribal areas really, really, really won't being invaded. Which will mean the insurgents get even stronger, and would probably even follow us back to Afghanistan.
longer than it took us to defeat the Nazi's
We're not fighting the Nazis. This is a completely different kind of war. In fact I'd argue a counter-insurgency is something else entirely. Frankly, I'd much rather trust people who've studied the development of counter-insurgency.
It took us 11 years to defeat the CTs. Should we have given up then or abandoned Malaya to Communism?
Your statement that nobody joins the army is an over exaggeration
Yes. But the point still stands - we might have recruitment, but not enough. Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying everyone should sign up (it would be very hypocritical of me) - I was just pointing out that insufficient recruitment and Afghanistan's unpopularity are reasons why the British can't
Also a very large amount of the drugs that's used in hospitals. The difference is who buys it and what they do with it. That's where attention needs to be focused. (In fact I can see a case for a western-funded nationalisation of the Poppy fields in Afghanistan - that way farmers are compensated and drug lords are restricted)
No Kromo, we have tried your way for the last six years
The Taleban has been pushed out of North-Western and Central Afghanistan and into the South East. In fact it's even struggling to fully operate within the country.
The reason we're stuck now is partly because there aren't enough troops on the ground (mainly due to NATO's reluctance...) and partly due to the rather dodgy border issue.
If we invaded Pakistan, we'd get slaughtered. Why? Because the Tribal areas really, really, really won't being invaded. Which will mean the insurgents get even stronger, and would probably even follow us back to Afghanistan.
longer than it took us to defeat the Nazi's
We're not fighting the Nazis. This is a completely different kind of war. In fact I'd argue a counter-insurgency is something else entirely. Frankly, I'd much rather trust people who've studied the development of counter-insurgency.
It took us 11 years to defeat the CTs. Should we have given up then or abandoned Malaya to Communism?
Your statement that nobody joins the army is an over exaggeration
Yes. But the point still stands - we might have recruitment, but not enough. Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying everyone should sign up (it would be very hypocritical of me) - I was just pointing out that insufficient recruitment and Afghanistan's unpopularity are reasons why the British can't
Correction on the Opium: Looking this up, I'm actually wrong. Nearly all Opium production in Afghanistan is focused on illegal trading. Apologies.
My point still stands though: Opium can be manufactured into Morphine (and other anaesthetics), which is still in widepsread use among hospitals. The fields thus have potential for good use, which would be far more constructive - and far less helpful to the insurgency - if it were tapped, as opposed to destroying them, which would be disastrous.
My point still stands though: Opium can be manufactured into Morphine (and other anaesthetics), which is still in widepsread use among hospitals. The fields thus have potential for good use, which would be far more constructive - and far less helpful to the insurgency - if it were tapped, as opposed to destroying them, which would be disastrous.
Mullah Omar (Taliban Leader) only once</> ordered and the cultivation of poppy stopped in whole Afghanistan.It only restarted once allied forces invaded the country.
Whats the REAL PURPOSE behind carrying on with this potentially neverending war ?</>
Pakistani nuclear capability is the real target. That is the reason this war is slowly moving towards Pakistan.
Whats the REAL PURPOSE behind carrying on with this potentially neverending war ?</>
Pakistani nuclear capability is the real target. That is the reason this war is slowly moving towards Pakistan.
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