Fair Blair

[brionon]

Mr. Blair said in Parliament recently that the biggest Terrorist attack was that against the Two Towers.

My question--Has he forgotten Hiroshima? Or The Midianites wiped out ,Man Woman and Child by Moses on the orders of his{Tony's} God?

[Loosehead]

Hiroshima was not a terrorist attack. In fact Hiroshima/Nagasaki saved millions of lives. Try reading a little history before you ask stupid leading questions.

[Trojanfarce]

So, if Hiroshima (in your view) was a terrorist attack, what was Pearl Habour? A lawful protest at American capitalism?

[brionon]

Of course Hiroshima was a Terrorist attack. It was meant to Terrorise the Japanese into surrender. There were no Millitary targets to be hit. And was it really necessary for you to be So unpleasant ? Pearl Harbour was an attack on the Navy of the USA, quite appalling but not a Terrorist attack.

[kick3m0n]

brionon - are you serious, or just in wind-up mode this lovely Friday????

[Supernick]

Dictionary definition

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Typically this is understood to mean attacks on either civilians or the miltary outside of a military context, .i.e not during a war situation.

[Trojanfarce]

Best not forget Cologne in 1942 then, eh?

[GruntFuttock]

It's the Midianites I feel sorry for-this Moses chappy should be brought to justice.

By the way brionon,the God of Moses was a different God to Tony's.

[Dom Tuk]

Loosehead if you have read history you will know that many historians (of course of not your persuasion and hence stupid) have laughed at the often repeated refrain that Hiroshima saved millions of lives. That propoganda was perpetrated by the media and many fell for it, including some here on this website. saved lives...its like making love to preserve virginity.

[GruntFuttock]

Dom Tuk-- some interesting reading for you here:-

http://www.baronage.co.uk/chivalry/chival5b.html

[noxlumos]

Well said Dom Tuk.

Gruntfuttock what the hell makes you think that the Old Testament God is different to the New Testament God?

I think Brionon was thinking outside of the box with their question rather than on a very literal level. True Hiroshima/Nagasaki were war time attacks and thus not a terrorist attack but I think Brionon was maybe condsidering the true meaning of "terrorise" rather than the official definition and if so then the The World Trade Centre attack is a drop in the ocean to the attacks on Hiroshima etc.

[jake-the-peg]

Hiroshima's death tonn in 1945 was put at 90,000, the cumulative death toll from subsequent radiation effects is put at about a quarter of a million.

Nagaski looks a bit less say 400,000 for both cities.

The Battle for Okinawa took the lives of about 320,000.

It's not unreasonable to think taking Japan would have cost half a million lives

Consequently both strategies look as if they would involve similar death tolls but the nuclear option definately cost less American lives and was significantly cheaper.

I'd therefore suggest Hiroshima was justified - I'm not so convinced abuot Nagasaki.

Western governments do commit "terrorist" acts though - France and the Rainbow Warrior for example

[DavidUK]

Hiroshima was not a terrorist attack, as some of you say, because it was part of the war. In that case, as Bush has declared war on all terrorists, that means that any future attacks on the US would not be terrorist attacks but a part of the war.

I wonder, if we had lost WW2, would Hiroshima have been classified as a war crime by the Japanese victors?

As for the biggest terrorist attack, that must surely be the attack on Iraq where at least 100,000 innocent people have died. And that's if you ignore the far greater number that died as a result of years of sanctions.

[GruntFuttock]

noxlumos--why? isn't there a big difference?

[qapmoc]

Well if you are talking about the twin towers you had better be sure in your mind who actually ''did it'' because the evidence becoming more public and spreading around the net etc.. is that the 'terrorists'' where just idiots who were fronts for the real agenda of the neo-cons who actually demolited the towers to make it look like they fell down after being hit by small aircraft.

Yeah I know somebody is going to jump on this but before you do have a look here or here first.

[jake-the-peg]

I think Clanad's better qualified to comment on this but I believe the design of the towers was meant to take into account an aircraft collision with little fuel at low speed. The assumption being a landing plane lost in fog.

Not a fully fuelled airliner going at high speed

Besides if it had been a put up job I reckon there'd have been a load of "Iraqi evidence"

You'll excuse me if I'm a touch skeptical!

[noxlumos]

Gruntfuttock surely since you mentioned it you must be aware that the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New testament are one and the same entity?There may be a huge difference in interpretation of the two sections of the bible but it is the "same bloke" as it were. The fact that in the Old Testament he's more "eye for an eye and divine retribution" and in the New more of a "tree hugging social worker" shoudln't really cloud the issue that it is the same God. Jesus was a Jew after all.

[Loosehead]

So Dom, I don't agree with you so I'm stupid.

You see you have to occasionally try Paradoxical thinking. I notice you haven't actually challenged the argument just resorted to name calling, who's really the stupid one eh?

It has widely been accepted that Japan would never have surrendered in fact their own internal public films urged all citizens to defend the motherland. In any way they could. The allies would have had to fight for every inch, millions of lives on both sides would have been lost. Japan would never have surrendered. Even after the first bomb they didn't surrender. It took the Emperor himself to order surrender after the second Bomb because he though perhaps Tokyo was next, he didn't know that the US only had the 2 bombs at the time. Even after the surrender, several hundred Samurai committed Hari Kari at the loss of Honour. The Japanese mind regarded death as preferable to surrender something you clearly do not understand.

I have studied the subject in some detail and I find the tendency to spout anti western propaganda and general ignorance of spoon fed lefties like you quite breath taking.

[Loosehead]

Come on quapmoc they where bloody airliners on prime time TV! You can't seriously believe all the consiparcy theorists, please tell me you're not that dim. They make this crap up to they can sell their books and DVD's mate. Moon landings/Titanic/Princess Di etc it's a business and you guys are the patsy's

[qapmoc]

Hi jake-the-peg, I believe that the twin towers did not ''fall down'' and I try to put many people in touch with the idea as I can, not because I am anti the US or whatever but because I really do believe that the official story stinks - However most people just seem to think/say it can't be true ! who would or could do such a thing and not even consider looking at the evidence, but the thing is if you stop thinking ''politics'' ''who did it'' ''''why do it'' ''I don't believe it'' and just treat the whole thing like a technical subject and look at the events and examine the hundreds of pictures and video clips and listen to interviews and then actually THINK about what you have seen/heard then come back and comment to me.

Even Clanad did the same thing to me recently, I asked him a technical question as a pilot related to something on 911 and he just came back with political answers and never did actually give a technical answer to my question.

[gary baldy]

Hiroshima was not terrorism - Nagasaki was just spite but not terrorism either.
The bombing of German cities towards the end of the war was spite but also not terrorism.
I think Moses' intentions were spiteful aswell but not terrorism.
You have to keep the words of that immense thinker and great diplomatic Basil Fawlty in mind when he said
"No! - you started it! You invaded Poland".


'Spoon fed lefty'?
I'll add that to the Loosehead Lexicon of Lefty Lunacy.