Jimmy Saville

[sp1814]

Think of it this way...Jimmy Saville.

Whilst he was alive, he raised about £40m for Stoke Mandeville Hospital. He was a hero. A national treasure. He earned an O.B.E.

Then he was knighted.

If in the 1970s, Stoke Mandeville decided to erect a statue in honour of him, knowing what we now know - isn’t it understandable that people would want it removed?

Wouldn’t the children of those that Saville abused not want to see a public monument to him?

[jackthehat]

Andy - sp1814 has understood full-well what you have said to him although quite why you decided you needed to explain it time and time again I am not sure.

Savile was the closest example that sp1814 could find to someone being lauded in life and becoming a pariah when views changed about him after death and as I have already said, using him as an example underminded the thread right from the start......unfortunately.

[mushroom25]

//Colston, the slave trader, not a criminal?

What planet do you inhabit, naomi? //

I wonder if you might assist us by setting out the statute with which Mr Colston is guilty?
And the year it became law?

[andy-hughes]

jack - // Andy - sp1814 has understood full-well what you have said to him although quite why you decided you needed to explain it time and time again I am not sure. //

I believe the opposite, that he has completely failed to grasp why his premise is invalid, which is the reason why I explained it time and time again.

But he is willing to agree to differ, and I am fine with that.

[ynnafymmi]

Up here in Scotland the BLM mob want the removal of the Robert The Bruce statues.I wonder if Nicola will accede to their demands or will she and other nationalists be standing in front of the statues like the nationalists did down in England with the Churchill statue?

[andy-hughes]

ynna - // Up here in Scotland the BLM mob want the removal of the Robert The Bruce statues.I wonder if Nicola will accede to their demands or will she and other nationalists be standing in front of the statues like the nationalists did down in England with the Churchill statue? //

As someone who subscribes to the theory that Ms Sturgeon has Braveheart on a loop in her brain, I am sure she will be eating and sleeping atop the statue of her hero.

[douglas9401]

I'm sure the esteemed First Miniature has more worthy things spinning around in her head than some cartoon version of Scottish history.

She has her faults for sure but will find a way through this latest cause celebre and come out the other side smelling of heather.

[ynnafymmi]

...and you or i are not joking,Andy......Another hero to the SNP is Robert Burns,he was appointed to be a slavemaster out in Jamaica,but the success of his first book of poems persuaded him to stay here.Another headache for Nicola,should she accede to the BLM fascists demands or does she and other nationalists be defending the slave-master Burns?

[douglas9401]

I'm that Burns will be accorded the same leeway in not taking up that position as Savile has been in not having been tried and convicted of the crimes alleged.

In a fair-minded world that is.

[ynnafymmi]

Dougie,Dougie,Dougie...get with the message all these so called heroes of Scotland(Burns,Bruce and Wallace)are all a bunch of white,right-wing fascists.Get rid of their statues and melt them down.In their place we could put up statues of heroes of the struggle for black emancipation like Idi Amin,Robert Mugabe or Michael De Freitas(remember him).We could have the latter three kneeling on the necks of the former three.

[Mozz71]

//the nationalists did down in England with the Churchill statue?//

They were Nationalists Ynna, they were racists and hooligans out to get some blood. Protecting the statues was an excuse. Nationalists do not pick fights with the police and whizz up against memorials for terrorist victims.

[ynnafymmi]

Yes,i was being sarcastic,Mozz.My main point is that all nationalists are cut from the same cloth.Up here in Scotland they hate the English.Down in England they hate quite a few"others".Over in Ireland the nationalists not only hate everyone,they intend to murder as many as they can.Idiots,the whole lot of them.and dont get me started on the Welsh.Humphhh.

[douglas9401]

Greatly missed, Mr Lyttelton.

[mushroom25]

// dont get me started on the Welsh.Humphhh. //

"he lives underground with a lamp on his hat,
-and he sings far to often, too loud, and too flat....."
(michael flanders)

[ynnafymmi]

@16.48.Nah,Douglas he was much too"hideously white".Probably also a secret racist.If there are any statues of him around i would defend them from the BLM thugs,if i was you.

[retrocop]

If we are to throw out silly analogys then how about this one sp.
In your view this country's history is an uncomfortable reminder today of terrible things that happened in the past. The problem is that they were not terrible things at the time and a greatful nation benefited from the largesse of their philantropists. Now,comparative newcomers to this country wish to erase it's history which they deem unacceptable.
I'll tell you a bad thing that happened in this country. Three years ago (History) Grenfell Tower,predominately occupied by BAME residents went up in flames killing 72 people and burning the irreplaceable possessions of those who survived. Their trauma, no doubt,remains.
Grenfell Tower still stands today. Why ? The fire investigation is done. The cause established. It stands like an ugly carbuncle on the West London landscape. To some it is a giant memorial and shrine to their loved ones.There are plaques on walls in Notting Hill to commemorate it. A memorial garden. Today churches rang out 72 peals ,each one , for the dead. I always thought bells were rung out in celebration unless they were a toll.
An awful ugly reminder of how history dealt a bad hand so lets get rid of the useless carcase. Demolish it entirely and hide the plaques and build over the memorial garden. For me to do that would cause great offence to many people and I have absolutely no right to erase it and sweep it away and pretend it didn't happen. Just leave our history alone. If any one feels guilt and shame over this country's past then that is a problem for them to come to terms with and not some politically motivated to decide what goes or stays.
I am grateful for living in this country and the sanctuary it provides.
If this is such an awful racist regime then BLM would would do well to nip over to Calais and bang their ungrateful drum over there. There are thousands of immigrants over there putting themselves and family at risk to reach these shores. That might give me a clue that the place they are escaping is a darn site worse than what they left to get here and a few of our historic statues will not faze them at all.
If you think my analogy is poor then I will say a Saville comparison is worse and you started it.

[retrocop]

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https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/14/tributes-paid-grenfell-victims-online-vigil-third-anniversary-12850515/?ito=push-notification&ci=18608&si=9444196

[Togo]

Back of the net Retro. Respect.

[retrocop]

Cheers Togo.

[ynnafymmi]

@19.35.Well said,Retro.Poor sp1814...posts rubbish on here and then when his postings have shown to be spurious he runs back to his garden shed to hide his embarrassment.

[Togo]

Best answer on this site all weekend Retro, never mind a little thread that was confected to make a point that never existed. You won't get the deserved ba though. You put it up on "the wrong thread".