ChatterBank1 min ago
Looks Like Jezza Is Worried About His Crooked "block" Votes...
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Personally I don't see sufficient corruption in voting to need to introduce photograhic ID cards by the back door. I hope that idea gets nipped in the bud immediately. I have my voting card, I need no more. Unreceived or lost cards can be reported ahead of time and dealt with by reissue. As for Corbyn's claims, they seem legitimate enough, but besides the point.
What worries me about this government is that it seems to adopt a cavalier and possibly ill-informed approach to so many things.
In theory I support this idea but evidence would indicate that more would be deterred from voting than actually vote fraudulently by stealing identity. Which makes it problematic to say the least.
N Ireland has NOT had such a system “for decades” as the Cabinet Office claims: the Bill requiring photo ID there was only passed in 2002, and was to counter a very serious issue of “personation”
The system in N Ireland currently does not require you to have current photo ID: just one of around 7 types of approved photo ID: to get an electoral ID card (which is free), the easiest way is to produce ... some sort of photo ID : which seems fairly bizarre. Or failing that an elected representative can vouch for your identity (!)
In theory I support this idea but evidence would indicate that more would be deterred from voting than actually vote fraudulently by stealing identity. Which makes it problematic to say the least.
N Ireland has NOT had such a system “for decades” as the Cabinet Office claims: the Bill requiring photo ID there was only passed in 2002, and was to counter a very serious issue of “personation”
The system in N Ireland currently does not require you to have current photo ID: just one of around 7 types of approved photo ID: to get an electoral ID card (which is free), the easiest way is to produce ... some sort of photo ID : which seems fairly bizarre. Or failing that an elected representative can vouch for your identity (!)
Jonathan Bartley, co-leader of The Green Party said something similar yesterday. On the subject of ID cards he said “we’ve consistently rejected this because we believe in liberty and we believe in freedom.”
He obviously believes in the right to be dishonest and to put foreigners first, though.
As far as those that don’t have any photo ID, (approx 3.5 million, apparently) then local authorities could be empowered to issue them at no cost to the individual. (According to Nigel Evans).
He obviously believes in the right to be dishonest and to put foreigners first, though.
As far as those that don’t have any photo ID, (approx 3.5 million, apparently) then local authorities could be empowered to issue them at no cost to the individual. (According to Nigel Evans).
I’m not saying I agree with having to carry ID cards all the time, Old_Geezer, but I can see nothing wrong in having to prove your ID for voting.
Postal votes appear to be one of the biggest reasons for fraud, and this needs tackling.
During the referendum, I was surprised by the number of people who had applied for and been granted a postal vote for the pettiest of reasons: people who leave for work before polling stations open (despite getting home long before they close). I even spoke to someone who said that parking was always bad at his station, so he said he would be on holiday on polling day.
Postal votes appear to be one of the biggest reasons for fraud, and this needs tackling.
During the referendum, I was surprised by the number of people who had applied for and been granted a postal vote for the pettiest of reasons: people who leave for work before polling stations open (despite getting home long before they close). I even spoke to someone who said that parking was always bad at his station, so he said he would be on holiday on polling day.
//I have my voting card, I need no more.//
You don't even need that, OG. All you have to do is to present yourself at the polling station and say "I am Mr. O. Geezer of 28 Acacia Avenue" and, provided nobody has impersonated you before you got there, you will be given a voting paper.
I find it an incredibly weak system. I agree that citizens should not routinely be required to carry papers proving who they are. However, it is obvious that to secure certain services or conduct many transactions, proof of identity must be asked for. In an ideal world that would not be so but we do not live in an ideal world and large numbers of people are "at it" in so many ways.
Voting is no different. The ability to cast a vote is a powerful tool and every reasonable precaution should be taken to prevent the kind of abuse that was witnessed in the Tower Hamlets fiasco in 2014. It seems strange that people think nothing of being required to provide proof of identity when collection their Amazon parcel (value £5) from the Post Office but baulk at the idea when they wish to exercise their franchise.
My area was among those where the pilot schemes took place recently and it was no problem whatsoever. Most people have some form of photo identity. Older people (who are usually cited as the "victims" when such schemes are announced) have bus passes; many younger people have photo travel cards, driving licences or passports. Every effort should be made to prevent voter fraud (and another measure should be the removal of "on demand" postal voting). If Mr Corbyn is correct in that such a scheme discriminates against ethnic minorities (which I believe he is not) that's simply hard luck.
You don't even need that, OG. All you have to do is to present yourself at the polling station and say "I am Mr. O. Geezer of 28 Acacia Avenue" and, provided nobody has impersonated you before you got there, you will be given a voting paper.
I find it an incredibly weak system. I agree that citizens should not routinely be required to carry papers proving who they are. However, it is obvious that to secure certain services or conduct many transactions, proof of identity must be asked for. In an ideal world that would not be so but we do not live in an ideal world and large numbers of people are "at it" in so many ways.
Voting is no different. The ability to cast a vote is a powerful tool and every reasonable precaution should be taken to prevent the kind of abuse that was witnessed in the Tower Hamlets fiasco in 2014. It seems strange that people think nothing of being required to provide proof of identity when collection their Amazon parcel (value £5) from the Post Office but baulk at the idea when they wish to exercise their franchise.
My area was among those where the pilot schemes took place recently and it was no problem whatsoever. Most people have some form of photo identity. Older people (who are usually cited as the "victims" when such schemes are announced) have bus passes; many younger people have photo travel cards, driving licences or passports. Every effort should be made to prevent voter fraud (and another measure should be the removal of "on demand" postal voting). If Mr Corbyn is correct in that such a scheme discriminates against ethnic minorities (which I believe he is not) that's simply hard luck.
The Left are usually the beneficiaries of illegal voting. That's why they make it easier and push back against measures to make it more difficult.
I see Labour have the same bigotry of low expectations as the Dems had in America.
'poor little black people don't have ID'
That, unsurprisingly, didn't go down well with black people in the US.
I'd be surprised if it goes down any better with black people in the UK.
I see Labour have the same bigotry of low expectations as the Dems had in America.
'poor little black people don't have ID'
That, unsurprisingly, didn't go down well with black people in the US.
I'd be surprised if it goes down any better with black people in the UK.
Issuing photo ID to people is not trivial.
You can’t just turn up somewhere and expect to get it. As the experience in NI shows.
Although I was struck by the claim from “ministers” that “people who can’t prove their identity will be given free ID”
You what?!
Obviously it will be great to have a system which is foolproof, but if you are discouraging more honest people from voting than you are discouraging dishonest people, then arguably you need to think again.
Postal voting is surely not affected by this is it?
You can’t just turn up somewhere and expect to get it. As the experience in NI shows.
Although I was struck by the claim from “ministers” that “people who can’t prove their identity will be given free ID”
You what?!
Obviously it will be great to have a system which is foolproof, but if you are discouraging more honest people from voting than you are discouraging dishonest people, then arguably you need to think again.
Postal voting is surely not affected by this is it?
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