Civil Unrest Anyone?

[diddlydo]

Who'd like to join those like me in protest against Johnson's undemocratic behaviour?

[Old_Geezer]

Not really. One doesn't cause the other. Just indicates when we've thrown off foreign shackles there's a fair old bit of upgrading needed in the national system. But we've always suspected that, this just brings the issue to our attention.

[Zacs-Master]

Sounds like your making excuses there, OG. A fair old bit of upgrading is a bit like saying Everest is a bit high.

[Old_Geezer]

Not at all, been saying the system needs upgrading for quite a while now. And have admitted that regaining sovereignty isn't a national panacea but at least it would be our elite messing things up and needing to be put in their place. That's more doable.

In the short term there's chucking out those who behaved badly come the next GE. But we also need to reform both the upper house, which should be 100% elected, and the framework which specifies what each of the houses can and can't do. Preventing future continual delaying of that which the public has voted for, is an obvious thing to do.

[New Judge]

//Leave voters are complaining because the vote to leave an undemocratic EU is being thwarted by an undemocratic government. Ironic, huh?//

I'm not complaining of that, Zacs. I am complaining that the vote to leave - made by both the electorate and Parliament - is being thwarted by the intransigence of that very same Parliament. That Parliament, having passed a law providing for our departure (modifying it twice earlier this year) now seeks to overturn it. Basically the "Honourable" Members don't like the current law (which makes no mention of it being applicable only if a deal can be agreed) which they themselves passed. Having successfully delayed Brexit by seven months they were given an extension of our membership until October. In the intervening five months since then they have achieved absolutely nothing and are now complaining that the additional five days of prorogation is undemocratic. They now want our departure only to be possible provided it is done by agreement with the EU.

[dannyk13]

No honour among thieves and even less among a bunch of MP's.

[Zacs-Master]

NJ, no matter how verbose you are about it, your post’s last couple of sentences state that the process is undemocratic, which is my point at 15:21.

OG. You seem to be living in political cloud cuckoo land.

[THECORBYLOON]

DANNY, do you not think MPs would vote against having a recess if given the opportunity?

[Old_Geezer]

Well Zacs, I'd suspect you probably said something similar when folk said we'd exit the EU. And when they said it could be via no-deal.

[Zacs-Master]

No I didn’t, OG. If I had there’d be some evidence of it in the multiple Brexit threads I’ve joined in.

[Old_Geezer]

I think trecherous MPs who ignore democracy might vote against a recess in order to continue their attempts to pervert their responsibilities to the public, but it isn't their call. Indeed their abominable activities possibly brought the idea that we needed a break, to mind.

[Old_Geezer]

Ah so it's only recently your interpretation has been lacking then :-)

[THECORBYLOON]

The decision on the application for a temporary interdict at the Court of Session is due to be given to-morrow morning at 10 o'clock.

[david small]

Civil Unrest! What do you think we are French?

[jourdain2]

Nothing undemocratic about it - perfectly normal procedure. Given the virtual closure of Parliament for the Conference season, it only amounts to about the usual number of days of prorogation before a new Parliamentary term. Storm in a bucket. Or are you saying that the Queen is party to an anti-democratic putsch? That would be somewhat unwise, to say the least.

[New Judge]

Perhaps you can help me out here, Zacs:

“….your post’s last couple of sentences state that the process is undemocratic,”

My last couple of sentences:

“In the intervening five months since then they have achieved absolutely nothing and are now complaining that the additional five days of prorogation is undemocratic. They now want our departure only to be possible provided it is done by agreement with the EU.”

I’m not sure what process you say I state is undemocratic.

[vetuste_ennemi]

The prorogation device is obviously a dirty trick to limit the time (by however little) available to the Remain camp to force through a law which traps us in the EU. And this poster is disappointed when people like JRM pretend it is anything other, seeing as I like honesty and despise deceit.

But the ululations about the death of democracy and "this is a constitutional outrage" (not to mention Ekaterinberg republicans feigning concern for embarrassment caused to Brenda) are a bit rich coming from people who have spent all their energies in the last three years trying to reverse the result of the 2016 referendum.

[vetuste_ennemi]

(God knows why people like OG and NJ are wasting their time talking to people like Zac's Master.)

[diddlydo]

David Small - at times like this I wish we were French as we'd be out manning the barricades by now.

[Zacs-Master]

NJ, I can’t help it if you can’t interpret what you actually wrote. You might dress it up in all sorts of ways but you are on record as saying the Brexit process is undemocratic. Being cowardly and making it out to be someone else’s words does you no favours. You’re still a leave voter who can’t wait for us to leave the EU and hand over the reins to people who, on a daily basis, you criticise for being undemocratic! What sort of hypocrisy is that?

[Zacs-Master]

Oh, Jesus the Latin master is here telling us all how it should be.

Hello. It’s not the 1950s Vestry!