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What Happens With The Irish Border If We Leave With No Deal?
53 Answers
The whole border/ back stop etc malarkey has seen a lot of debate of late. Am I right in supposing that if we leave with no deal it stays as now anyway? OK the EUSSR may demand something from ROI but what can they realistically do when both UK and ROI are happy how it is now?
Answers
UK government has said they won’t put a hard boarder in place. The NI assembly has said they won’t put a hard boarder in place. Southern Island government has said they won’t put a hard boarder in place. EU has said they won’t put a hard boarder in place. So no hard boarder. They will either have in place or get very quicky systems that allow trade to...
23:33 Mon 21st Jan 2019
//Customs Union = locked in to EU tariffs and unable to make trade deals with other countries//
That is true.
The deal also imposes the legal obligation to "mirror" all EU legislation and directives even when we are excluded from its councils. EU regulation is in itself discriminatory, creating barriers to entry by increasing business costs. E.g. the EU may reduce the working week, insist on one year's maternity leave on full pay and the like. The UK would be legally obliged to incorporate these social provisions in its own legislation. This ensures (in the jargon of the deal) "a level playing field by disallowing the UK "unfair" ( i.e. competitive) advantage.
The legally binding document says that the EU will give the UK "advanced notice" of any such new EU directives in order to give the UK time to do the mirroring. And additionally stipulates a new body to be set up in the UK - and funded by the UK - to ensure that the UK complies with the new legislation in a timely fashion. I don't know how many people will constitute the new body, but it will be an impartial monitor of the UK's compliance, and arbiter where necessary of disputes arising. It will have legal representatives (I assume) from both the EU and the UK. So a job opportunity for any prominent Leavers who lose their seats in the next General Election and who have the necessary legal qualifications.
That is true.
The deal also imposes the legal obligation to "mirror" all EU legislation and directives even when we are excluded from its councils. EU regulation is in itself discriminatory, creating barriers to entry by increasing business costs. E.g. the EU may reduce the working week, insist on one year's maternity leave on full pay and the like. The UK would be legally obliged to incorporate these social provisions in its own legislation. This ensures (in the jargon of the deal) "a level playing field by disallowing the UK "unfair" ( i.e. competitive) advantage.
The legally binding document says that the EU will give the UK "advanced notice" of any such new EU directives in order to give the UK time to do the mirroring. And additionally stipulates a new body to be set up in the UK - and funded by the UK - to ensure that the UK complies with the new legislation in a timely fashion. I don't know how many people will constitute the new body, but it will be an impartial monitor of the UK's compliance, and arbiter where necessary of disputes arising. It will have legal representatives (I assume) from both the EU and the UK. So a job opportunity for any prominent Leavers who lose their seats in the next General Election and who have the necessary legal qualifications.
Example of the Irish border and hard Brexit. There are quite a few others, Tora:
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Loving best answer to someone who has difficulty spelling the word border and Ireland. Classic.
https:/
Loving best answer to someone who has difficulty spelling the word border and Ireland. Classic.
Jim:” No Deal = no customs union = necessary to have some system of checking cross-border goods. Both sides have indeed stated that they don't want a Hard Border, but both sides also recognise that this is exactly what No Deal imposes, via WTO rules if nothing else. Hence the Backstop; hence the fears over No Deal.”
I agree and I think cass does too which is why she wrote:
“They will either have in place or get very quicky systems that allow trade to continue. Funnily enough most of the trade entering via Southampton docks is non EU goods and they work perfectly well.”
Norway style customs checking can be used, no doubt some development is necessary but the basic system is there.
I agree and I think cass does too which is why she wrote:
“They will either have in place or get very quicky systems that allow trade to continue. Funnily enough most of the trade entering via Southampton docks is non EU goods and they work perfectly well.”
Norway style customs checking can be used, no doubt some development is necessary but the basic system is there.
Interesting to see some are more interesting in taking someone down for spelling than for content.
No surprises I suppose. Both think they are the bees knees.
TTT, I suspect things will just continue as they are, for the immediate future. As for the longer term who knows, after all the way the EU is going it may not be around in its current form anyway.
No surprises I suppose. Both think they are the bees knees.
TTT, I suspect things will just continue as they are, for the immediate future. As for the longer term who knows, after all the way the EU is going it may not be around in its current form anyway.
“It is pretty much unthinkable that either/both parties will simply ignore the customs and tax (VAT, etc.) concerns,…”
The UK and Ireland already have different VAT and excise regimes. They are managed perfectly well with no hard border.
“…movement of people…”
Movement of people is not an issue. Non-Schengen countries (which Ireland is among) determine their own method of border control as far as immigration goes.
“Funnily enough most of the trade entering via Southampton docks is non EU goods and they work perfectly well.”
Strangely I keep mentioning that about 98% of non-EU goods enter the UK without intervention, and I imagine the same is true of most EU nations including Ireland. But suddenly it cannot cope with the two pennyworth of goods crossing from the UK. I’m not saying that arrangements will be ready on day one – that’s politicians’ fault for fannying about. But solutions are available or how else does the rest of Europe cope?
So my answer is on Day One nothing will happen and between then and day nnn arrangements will be put in place to ensure frictionless movement of goods between the two countries. Pragmatism will eventually prevail over political intransigence. I’m out of this now because the question is continually asked and is continually met with the same or similar replies (ranging between mine and “war in Ireland will return on 30th March”). Sufficient to say that the issue has been weaponised by the EU as a way to compel the UK to remain either partially or wholly in their wretched Customs Union and, instead of showing some backbone, the UK has fallen for it hook, line and sinker. But that’s to be expected from a Remainer government and Parliament.
The UK and Ireland already have different VAT and excise regimes. They are managed perfectly well with no hard border.
“…movement of people…”
Movement of people is not an issue. Non-Schengen countries (which Ireland is among) determine their own method of border control as far as immigration goes.
“Funnily enough most of the trade entering via Southampton docks is non EU goods and they work perfectly well.”
Strangely I keep mentioning that about 98% of non-EU goods enter the UK without intervention, and I imagine the same is true of most EU nations including Ireland. But suddenly it cannot cope with the two pennyworth of goods crossing from the UK. I’m not saying that arrangements will be ready on day one – that’s politicians’ fault for fannying about. But solutions are available or how else does the rest of Europe cope?
So my answer is on Day One nothing will happen and between then and day nnn arrangements will be put in place to ensure frictionless movement of goods between the two countries. Pragmatism will eventually prevail over political intransigence. I’m out of this now because the question is continually asked and is continually met with the same or similar replies (ranging between mine and “war in Ireland will return on 30th March”). Sufficient to say that the issue has been weaponised by the EU as a way to compel the UK to remain either partially or wholly in their wretched Customs Union and, instead of showing some backbone, the UK has fallen for it hook, line and sinker. But that’s to be expected from a Remainer government and Parliament.
I think some don't seem to agree on what an open border, vs a hard border, means; or they wouldn't insist no-deal means a hard border. Quote from the PM herself, "the measures intended to ensure that whatever else happens, there will be no return to a visible border between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic after the UK leaves the EU". So an open border is simply allowing traffic/pedestrians to pass through as if no border was there. It has nothing to do with having a system in place to ensure correct taxes, tariffs, standards are applied. The systems for achieving this already exist, as folk have indicated above.
Just since you were posting this, the Irish Taoiseach has stated -- again -- that either the UK needs to agree to the withdrawal agreement or there will have to be a separate deal to ensure no hard border; and the EU Commission's spokesperson has said that it is "pretty obvious" that a No Deal exit will lead to a Hard Border.
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