ChatterBank1 min ago
Why Is Russia And Putin In Particular Being Held Responsible For This Horrible Crime.
64 Answers
The headlines being banded about by the Western media such as
"Russians did it! Putin's rebels BLEW UP MH17 plane"
"Is this the moment Russians prepared to fire a missile at flight MH17?"
"Time to confess, Putin"
"Pro-Russian looters"
"Armed Russian rebels"
"'This baby's death is on your conscience, Putin"
"Russian gangsters killed our loved ones"
"Britain and America implicate Russia in Flight MH17 missile attack"
If it was indeed the UKRAINE rebels who committed this crime, (and nothing has so far been proven) how can Putin or his Russian people be held responsible for the actions of a few madmen?
If it is proven that it was the Ukrainians themselves who are responsible, will we ever be told, and if we are, this would be a huge egg in the faces of the Western politicians and our media.
And this is in no way an anti British rant, or even pro-Russian, it is simply a relevant question.
"Russians did it! Putin's rebels BLEW UP MH17 plane"
"Is this the moment Russians prepared to fire a missile at flight MH17?"
"Time to confess, Putin"
"Pro-Russian looters"
"Armed Russian rebels"
"'This baby's death is on your conscience, Putin"
"Russian gangsters killed our loved ones"
"Britain and America implicate Russia in Flight MH17 missile attack"
If it was indeed the UKRAINE rebels who committed this crime, (and nothing has so far been proven) how can Putin or his Russian people be held responsible for the actions of a few madmen?
If it is proven that it was the Ukrainians themselves who are responsible, will we ever be told, and if we are, this would be a huge egg in the faces of the Western politicians and our media.
And this is in no way an anti British rant, or even pro-Russian, it is simply a relevant question.
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I posted the SBU transcript of the call between rebels and their GRU handlers admitting responsibility for the shooting on another thread.
The SBU have since released other transcripts showing that they had already received the Buk missiles and launchers and were preparing to use them.
And they also boasted about it on their website.
The SBU have since released other transcripts showing that they had already received the Buk missiles and launchers and were preparing to use them.
And they also boasted about it on their website.
hI aog, A firework and a SAM missile are two different things. Also, your inference that it is only china that make fireworks is inaccurate.
A shotgun and a SAM missile are also different, a shotgun requires minimal training to use effectively and cannot take down a plane flying higher than around 50 feet.
Yes the world's arms dealers have blood on their hands.
Loving the fact that rebels tweeted, what a modern world.
A shotgun and a SAM missile are also different, a shotgun requires minimal training to use effectively and cannot take down a plane flying higher than around 50 feet.
Yes the world's arms dealers have blood on their hands.
Loving the fact that rebels tweeted, what a modern world.
"Then all the world's arms dealers and arms manufactures must also have to shoulder the blame for all the deaths that have accrued in all the conflicts past and present around the world?
"
Arguably we should.
However in this instance we aren't talking about "sell it and forget it", we're talking about "lend it out to terrorists and mercenaries, give orders in its use, supply trained operatives to use it, and then smuggle it back sheepishly when you realise you've fracked up.
Or are you OK with the money and weapons supplied by US sympathisers to the IRA for all those years, after all.
"
Arguably we should.
However in this instance we aren't talking about "sell it and forget it", we're talking about "lend it out to terrorists and mercenaries, give orders in its use, supply trained operatives to use it, and then smuggle it back sheepishly when you realise you've fracked up.
Or are you OK with the money and weapons supplied by US sympathisers to the IRA for all those years, after all.
Gromit
///Questions need to be asked of the CAA, as to why, after it was known the rebels had captured a missile system with a range of 70,000 feet, did they permit civilian airliners to fly at half that height after 29th June.///
I don't think you can blame the CAA, On the radio they were saying that the blame should be levied towards Malaysian Airlines for cost cutting, seeing that most other airlines have re-routed their flights away from this war zone.
*** British Airways, Qantas and Cathay Pacific among those who have taken detours around area where MH17 was brought down. ***
http://
///Questions need to be asked of the CAA, as to why, after it was known the rebels had captured a missile system with a range of 70,000 feet, did they permit civilian airliners to fly at half that height after 29th June.///
I don't think you can blame the CAA, On the radio they were saying that the blame should be levied towards Malaysian Airlines for cost cutting, seeing that most other airlines have re-routed their flights away from this war zone.
*** British Airways, Qantas and Cathay Pacific among those who have taken detours around area where MH17 was brought down. ***
http://
Wikipedia
// On 21 November 2013 a Ukrainian government decree suspended preparations for signing of association agreement; instead it proposed the creation of a three-way trade commission between Ukraine, the European Union and Russia that would resolve trade issues between the sides. Prime Minister Mykola Azarov issued the decree in order to "ensure the national security of Ukraine" and in consideration of the possible ramfications of trade with Russia (and other CIS countries) if the agreement was signed on a 28–29 November summit in Vilnius. According to Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister Yuriy Boyko Ukraine will resume preparing the agreement "when the drop in industrial production and our relations with CIS countries are compensated by the European market, otherwise our country's economy will sustain serious damage".
Some EU diplomats were more sceptical of the reasons put forward. Later on 21 November 2013, the Russian presidential press secretary, Dmitry Peskov, called the Ukrainian decree "a strictly internal and sovereign decision of the country, and we think we have no right to comment on it" and stated that Russia was prepared to have tripartite negotiations with Ukraine and the EU on trade and economic issues.
The European Parliament's monitoring mission in Ukraine stated (also on 21 November 2013) that there was still a possibility to sign the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement. The same day Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych stated "an alternative for reforms in Ukraine and an alternative for European integration do not exist...We are walking along this path and are not changing direction". //
// On 21 November 2013 a Ukrainian government decree suspended preparations for signing of association agreement; instead it proposed the creation of a three-way trade commission between Ukraine, the European Union and Russia that would resolve trade issues between the sides. Prime Minister Mykola Azarov issued the decree in order to "ensure the national security of Ukraine" and in consideration of the possible ramfications of trade with Russia (and other CIS countries) if the agreement was signed on a 28–29 November summit in Vilnius. According to Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister Yuriy Boyko Ukraine will resume preparing the agreement "when the drop in industrial production and our relations with CIS countries are compensated by the European market, otherwise our country's economy will sustain serious damage".
Some EU diplomats were more sceptical of the reasons put forward. Later on 21 November 2013, the Russian presidential press secretary, Dmitry Peskov, called the Ukrainian decree "a strictly internal and sovereign decision of the country, and we think we have no right to comment on it" and stated that Russia was prepared to have tripartite negotiations with Ukraine and the EU on trade and economic issues.
The European Parliament's monitoring mission in Ukraine stated (also on 21 November 2013) that there was still a possibility to sign the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement. The same day Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych stated "an alternative for reforms in Ukraine and an alternative for European integration do not exist...We are walking along this path and are not changing direction". //
Here is a list of airliner shoot down incidents.
http://
America are not blameless it seems.
/// Iran Air Flight 655 (IR655) was a commercial flight operated by Iran Air that flew from Bandar Abbas, Iran to Dubai, UAE. On July 3, 1988, towards the end of the Iran-Iraq War, the aircraft flying IR655 was shot down by the U.S. Navy Ticonderoga-class guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes when it fired a SM-2MR surface-to-air missile. The airplane was destroyed between Bandar Abbas and Dubai, killing all 290 passengers and crew. USS Vincennes was in Iranian waters at the time of the attack, and IR655, an Airbus A300, was misidentified as an Iranian F-14. ///
Also;
/// On 4 October 2001, Tu-154 crashed over the Black Sea. The plane may have been hit by S-200 surface to air missile, fired from the Crimea peninsula during an exercise of Ukrainian military. All on board (66 passengers and 12 crew) were killed. Then President of Ukraine Leonid Kuchma and several high commanders of the military later expressed their condolences to the relatives of the victims. ///
During an exercise by the Ukrainian military eh? That's food for thought.
http://
America are not blameless it seems.
/// Iran Air Flight 655 (IR655) was a commercial flight operated by Iran Air that flew from Bandar Abbas, Iran to Dubai, UAE. On July 3, 1988, towards the end of the Iran-Iraq War, the aircraft flying IR655 was shot down by the U.S. Navy Ticonderoga-class guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes when it fired a SM-2MR surface-to-air missile. The airplane was destroyed between Bandar Abbas and Dubai, killing all 290 passengers and crew. USS Vincennes was in Iranian waters at the time of the attack, and IR655, an Airbus A300, was misidentified as an Iranian F-14. ///
Also;
/// On 4 October 2001, Tu-154 crashed over the Black Sea. The plane may have been hit by S-200 surface to air missile, fired from the Crimea peninsula during an exercise of Ukrainian military. All on board (66 passengers and 12 crew) were killed. Then President of Ukraine Leonid Kuchma and several high commanders of the military later expressed their condolences to the relatives of the victims. ///
During an exercise by the Ukrainian military eh? That's food for thought.
"Can you blame Putin for not wanting the EU or even NATO knocking on his front door, what would the West's response be if it was Russia knocking on their front door.
Not being Communistic or anti Wast as anyone on AB knows that is not me, but just playing devil's advocate you understand. "
Afternoon aog. Don't worry I don't think I will ever mistake you for a communist :-) Don't think I'd have Putin down as a Communist either come to that.
The difference is in the nature of the beast. NATO and the EU don't knock on people's doors with quite the same menacing air as Putin's Russia. Look at Moldova, Georgia and now Ukraine, for example, all the victims of Russian-backed separatist wars. Not to mention the Baltic States, safely now in NATO but the constant objects of vilification in the Russian media.
NATO has for years tried to adopt good relations with Russia only constantly to be rebuffed. Meanwhile the people and governments of Russia's neighbours see NATO as their protection.
Not being Communistic or anti Wast as anyone on AB knows that is not me, but just playing devil's advocate you understand. "
Afternoon aog. Don't worry I don't think I will ever mistake you for a communist :-) Don't think I'd have Putin down as a Communist either come to that.
The difference is in the nature of the beast. NATO and the EU don't knock on people's doors with quite the same menacing air as Putin's Russia. Look at Moldova, Georgia and now Ukraine, for example, all the victims of Russian-backed separatist wars. Not to mention the Baltic States, safely now in NATO but the constant objects of vilification in the Russian media.
NATO has for years tried to adopt good relations with Russia only constantly to be rebuffed. Meanwhile the people and governments of Russia's neighbours see NATO as their protection.
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