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The Outrageous Ukip Donor
The Ukip donor who says gay people are incapable of love -
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This chap Marchessini is quite clearly stark raving bonkers, and when CH4, amongst others, point this out, its a case of "snide bashing of UKIP" ? Really ? Did you think about that comment before you pressed the submit button brenden ? How extreme and offensive does a UKIP supporter have to be before you are prepared to admit that, yet again, UKIP has failed to do...
20:46 Wed 30th Apr 2014
For Christ's sake! What's "snide" about it?
UKIP seem to have no interest whatsoever in exercising any control over who flocks to their banner. It's happened time and again that some influential person in UKIP (or even the odd grassroots member) gets caught out saying something despicable, the leadership assures everyone that everything is fine, and then we're back in the same position the next morning.
What will it take? What will it take for people to stop glibly accepting Farage's assurances that he cares deeply about making sure his legitimate party does not house people who get their political news from the nonsense planet?
Why are people being so wilfully blind? The failure of the party's leadership to control its membership is not a "snide" criticism or a cheap shot born of fear - it is a perfectly serious one. Are you really happy with the idea of voting for a group of people who have such a half-arsed approach to vetting their members?
UKIP seem to have no interest whatsoever in exercising any control over who flocks to their banner. It's happened time and again that some influential person in UKIP (or even the odd grassroots member) gets caught out saying something despicable, the leadership assures everyone that everything is fine, and then we're back in the same position the next morning.
What will it take? What will it take for people to stop glibly accepting Farage's assurances that he cares deeply about making sure his legitimate party does not house people who get their political news from the nonsense planet?
Why are people being so wilfully blind? The failure of the party's leadership to control its membership is not a "snide" criticism or a cheap shot born of fear - it is a perfectly serious one. Are you really happy with the idea of voting for a group of people who have such a half-arsed approach to vetting their members?
How about the disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein and his donations to Peter Mandleson, who was I believe a EU commissioner also - would not put the UK's interest first because it would interfere with his £31,000 per year pension he receives from them - Good old labour morals. We could all smear every party if we look hard enough - corruption is rife across the board - they will all cosy up to money regardless of personal views of the donors.
But this isn't really about donors or corruption - I wouldn't call UKIP's relationship with Marchessini corrupt. It breaks no laws, and every party needs money from somewhere.
The criticism this thread is concerned with is about a wider problem which Marchessini is only the most recent manifestation of - i.e. that UKIP doesn't seem to care at all what kind of people get into influential positions relating to the party.
The criticism this thread is concerned with is about a wider problem which Marchessini is only the most recent manifestation of - i.e. that UKIP doesn't seem to care at all what kind of people get into influential positions relating to the party.
The saddest thing about this story is the timing.
If poor William Henwood ("Lenny Henry should go and live in a black country") had held on for a few more days, then he wouldn't have to had to resign.
...because any how you look at it, "Gays can't feel love, and there's no such thing as rape within marriage" totally trumps, "Go forth to a black country".
The lesson here is, "If you are a UKIP councillor who hits the news for the wrong reasons...just hang on for a week or so, because the next story will make you look relatively normal".
If poor William Henwood ("Lenny Henry should go and live in a black country") had held on for a few more days, then he wouldn't have to had to resign.
...because any how you look at it, "Gays can't feel love, and there's no such thing as rape within marriage" totally trumps, "Go forth to a black country".
The lesson here is, "If you are a UKIP councillor who hits the news for the wrong reasons...just hang on for a week or so, because the next story will make you look relatively normal".
He may have some outlandish views but I don't think he is a criminal.
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AOG
Have you not noticed the number of anti-UKIP stories in the Daily Mail?
Would you describe this paper as being part of 'the Left'?
Or is this another example of the Daily Mail, 'telling it like it is'?
Also, the same can be said of the Express and the Telegraph, both of whom have leapt on these stories.
What gives?
Have you not noticed the number of anti-UKIP stories in the Daily Mail?
Would you describe this paper as being part of 'the Left'?
Or is this another example of the Daily Mail, 'telling it like it is'?
Also, the same can be said of the Express and the Telegraph, both of whom have leapt on these stories.
What gives?
Kromovaracun - "The argument isn't being made that one nutcase undermines UKIP. That would be silly. The argument is being made that UKIP is attracting huge numbers of nutcases and does not seem to care about it or make any serious efforts to filter its supporters.
Every time this happens (which is coming close to every 5 minutes) we get a transparent and meaningless assurance that the party has distanced itself from whoever - until it happens again, when the same thing happens.
And bizarrely that seems enough for some people. If we discovered Farage sitting on a throne made of cake and a little crown made of raisins and nuts then it would all be probably be totally legit if he just waved his bejewelled hand and said "nooooo I'm totally not king of the fruitcakes." Seriously, what would be enough to make people actually start questioning this party's credibility instead of sticking their fingers in their ears and accusing everyone of being terrified?"
A class answer - made me laugh out loud!
I entirely agree that UKIP's constant 'distancing' is becoming beyond a joke, and for Neil Hamilton to suggest that money matters rather more than the views of its source shows that he has finally found his true political home - a party which doesn't even go through the motions of censuring its crooks like the Tories do.
If Mr Frarage has to 'distance' himself much more, he is going to finish up campaigning from an atol in the South Atlantic!
Every time this happens (which is coming close to every 5 minutes) we get a transparent and meaningless assurance that the party has distanced itself from whoever - until it happens again, when the same thing happens.
And bizarrely that seems enough for some people. If we discovered Farage sitting on a throne made of cake and a little crown made of raisins and nuts then it would all be probably be totally legit if he just waved his bejewelled hand and said "nooooo I'm totally not king of the fruitcakes." Seriously, what would be enough to make people actually start questioning this party's credibility instead of sticking their fingers in their ears and accusing everyone of being terrified?"
A class answer - made me laugh out loud!
I entirely agree that UKIP's constant 'distancing' is becoming beyond a joke, and for Neil Hamilton to suggest that money matters rather more than the views of its source shows that he has finally found his true political home - a party which doesn't even go through the motions of censuring its crooks like the Tories do.
If Mr Frarage has to 'distance' himself much more, he is going to finish up campaigning from an atol in the South Atlantic!
For the last time, this is *not* about donations. No party is expected to look clean when they all have to begging for scraps from millionaires. It's about the people that UKIP allows to get into influential positions, time and time again.
People seem to be ignoring this, so I'm going to try running a little thought experiment to try and get the point across. Naturally, this is just a hypothetical and not a prediction so please bear that in mind as you read.
Imagine, just for a moment, that UKIP manages to completely and utterly replace the Liberals as third party. Now imagine that the UK has another hung parliament and UKIP are in the position of kingmaker and able to get some influence. Now imagine that some of the candidates UKIP proposes get their hands close to some of the ministries.
I know this isn't going to happen. And I also know that people who vote UKIP don't vote on the assumption that it will. But just bear with me for a moment and ask yourself if that's really, honestly a theoretical scenario you find appealing or not.
Every single time that a member of the tin-foil-hat brigade comes gleefully bursting out of the UKIP woodwork, the same thing happens. "We don't have anything to do with him." "Oh, we're suspending him." "Don't worry! We're in control of our members." Then before they can finish their sentence another one comes out.
Are people seriously, genuinely, okay with the idea (and it is just an idea) of an organisation so lax and half-arsed about who gets to be part of it getting anywhere near a position of authority? Watch the Marchessini video. There is an influential minority (I mean, presumably, right?) of people in UKIP who will watch that video and wonder why anyone could possibly disagree with such fresh and incisive ideas.
Yes, there's probably some Trotskyists still lurking in the Labour party. Yes, there's probably some archaic old bigots in the Tory party. But the kind of things that keep falling out of UKIP are a) a whole dimension of lunacy away from those and b) not subject to anything like as serious an effort to keep them away from influential positions in the party.
People seem to be ignoring this, so I'm going to try running a little thought experiment to try and get the point across. Naturally, this is just a hypothetical and not a prediction so please bear that in mind as you read.
Imagine, just for a moment, that UKIP manages to completely and utterly replace the Liberals as third party. Now imagine that the UK has another hung parliament and UKIP are in the position of kingmaker and able to get some influence. Now imagine that some of the candidates UKIP proposes get their hands close to some of the ministries.
I know this isn't going to happen. And I also know that people who vote UKIP don't vote on the assumption that it will. But just bear with me for a moment and ask yourself if that's really, honestly a theoretical scenario you find appealing or not.
Every single time that a member of the tin-foil-hat brigade comes gleefully bursting out of the UKIP woodwork, the same thing happens. "We don't have anything to do with him." "Oh, we're suspending him." "Don't worry! We're in control of our members." Then before they can finish their sentence another one comes out.
Are people seriously, genuinely, okay with the idea (and it is just an idea) of an organisation so lax and half-arsed about who gets to be part of it getting anywhere near a position of authority? Watch the Marchessini video. There is an influential minority (I mean, presumably, right?) of people in UKIP who will watch that video and wonder why anyone could possibly disagree with such fresh and incisive ideas.
Yes, there's probably some Trotskyists still lurking in the Labour party. Yes, there's probably some archaic old bigots in the Tory party. But the kind of things that keep falling out of UKIP are a) a whole dimension of lunacy away from those and b) not subject to anything like as serious an effort to keep them away from influential positions in the party.
andy-hughes
/// "The argument isn't being made that one nutcase undermines UKIP. That would be silly. ///
And you don't think that your over exaggerated statement below, is definitely 'silly'? Along with your comments of Farage sitting on a throne made of cake and a little crown made of raisins and nuts, and finishing up campaigning from an atol in the South Atlantic!.
/// Every time this happens (which is coming close to every 5 minutes) ///
Lets see a sensible adult debate on UKIP instead of all these rather childish acts of name calling, especially from those who are always ready to report on inappropriate things that some supporters of UKIP have said.
Andy did you read the links that I provided appertaining to the three main political parties?
/// "The argument isn't being made that one nutcase undermines UKIP. That would be silly. ///
And you don't think that your over exaggerated statement below, is definitely 'silly'? Along with your comments of Farage sitting on a throne made of cake and a little crown made of raisins and nuts, and finishing up campaigning from an atol in the South Atlantic!.
/// Every time this happens (which is coming close to every 5 minutes) ///
Lets see a sensible adult debate on UKIP instead of all these rather childish acts of name calling, especially from those who are always ready to report on inappropriate things that some supporters of UKIP have said.
Andy did you read the links that I provided appertaining to the three main political parties?
I'm no UKIP supporter, but things like this channel 4 story annoy me - ok, you've found a looney who supports UKIP - amazing! - they've accepted his money - outrageous!
Now have a look at the other parties and see how many unpleasant idiots you can find. We're only not hearing about those because there's a media obsession with finding the next UKIP nutjob.
The hysteria around UKIP is ridiculous. They'll do well at the EU elections and then sink without a trace at the general election - and if they don't, well that's tough isn't it? They've obviously been saying something that people want to hear, and the other parties need to start addressing the same things, instead of just levelling insults at Farage in the pompous belief that people will be put off him just because they've called his supporters swivelled-eyed or whatever.
Now have a look at the other parties and see how many unpleasant idiots you can find. We're only not hearing about those because there's a media obsession with finding the next UKIP nutjob.
The hysteria around UKIP is ridiculous. They'll do well at the EU elections and then sink without a trace at the general election - and if they don't, well that's tough isn't it? They've obviously been saying something that people want to hear, and the other parties need to start addressing the same things, instead of just levelling insults at Farage in the pompous belief that people will be put off him just because they've called his supporters swivelled-eyed or whatever.
'Lord Tebbit remarked: "If I suddenly discovered my customers were walking past my shop and going to a competitor, I would not stand in the street cursing them."
From the guardian
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From the guardian
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AOG - "andy-hughes
/// "The argument isn't being made that one nutcase undermines UKIP. That would be silly. ///
And you don't think that your over exaggerated statement below, is definitely 'silly'? Along with your comments of Farage sitting on a throne made of cake and a little crown made of raisins and nuts, and finishing up campaigning from an atol in the South Atlantic!.
/// Every time this happens (which is coming close to every 5 minutes) ///
Lets see a sensible adult debate on UKIP instead of all these rather childish acts of name calling, especially from those who are always ready to report on inappropriate things that some supporters of UKIP have said."
I'm all for a sensible debate, but you need to direct these criticisms at Kromovaracun - those epic words of wisdom are his rather than mine - I merely quoted them in my response, hence the inverted commas around them.
Hope this clears up any misunderstanding.
/// "The argument isn't being made that one nutcase undermines UKIP. That would be silly. ///
And you don't think that your over exaggerated statement below, is definitely 'silly'? Along with your comments of Farage sitting on a throne made of cake and a little crown made of raisins and nuts, and finishing up campaigning from an atol in the South Atlantic!.
/// Every time this happens (which is coming close to every 5 minutes) ///
Lets see a sensible adult debate on UKIP instead of all these rather childish acts of name calling, especially from those who are always ready to report on inappropriate things that some supporters of UKIP have said."
I'm all for a sensible debate, but you need to direct these criticisms at Kromovaracun - those epic words of wisdom are his rather than mine - I merely quoted them in my response, hence the inverted commas around them.
Hope this clears up any misunderstanding.
The main reason the left on here hate UKIP is because they have been unable to silence them with the usual name calling.
I am a Tory, I should probably be more worried than the lefties but I am astute enough to understand why he is appealing. Probably because I dont wear rose tinted glasses and am prepared to understand others have views that dont reflect my own too.
For once I wish we could have a debate in UKIP without name calling and assertions of this and that. I cannot take part in any debate where the left resort to name calling and slating of personalities though.
And show me a party that is whiter than white. Not labor they are very red now ;-)
I am a Tory, I should probably be more worried than the lefties but I am astute enough to understand why he is appealing. Probably because I dont wear rose tinted glasses and am prepared to understand others have views that dont reflect my own too.
For once I wish we could have a debate in UKIP without name calling and assertions of this and that. I cannot take part in any debate where the left resort to name calling and slating of personalities though.
And show me a party that is whiter than white. Not labor they are very red now ;-)
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