14 Weeks In Jail Is Nothing

[wolf63]

This woman is evil. She microwaved a kitten for 5 minutes because she thought that it had attacked another pet.

She is young and could, theoretically, go on to have children of her own to care for. I hope that she does a better job of it than her caring for a kitten.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-26563326

[gness]

Ahhh.....but I'm with Kloofnek on the harm that can be done by unsupervised use of a computer by children....☺

[jim360]

In those cases isn't it the bad parenting rather than the computer game itself that's to blame?

[gness]

Bit of both, Jim.....the violence in some games is unacceptable....to me anyway.

[wolf63]

I am not insensitive when it comes to mental health issues. After many years of "strange" behaviour I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder on 1997. I have suffered manic and psychotic episodes.

If this lady had lashed out and decapitated/killed this poor animal I could,perhaps, understand. But she cruelly microwaved it for five minutes. Even then she did not take him to the vet.

I know that it is unfair to judge the sentence upon the information in the press. But I find it really hard to comprehend the mentality of doing such a thing to such a small and fragile animal.

[Jeza]

This article really makes me want to throw up. What kind of person must she be?

[DrFilth]

from sky
> Cunliffe, of Hoyland, Barnsley, admitted one charge of causing unnecessary suffering to an animal at a previous hearing.

She was banned from keeping animals for life and was told she cannot apply to have the ban reviewed for five years.

[sandyRoe]

If she read this she'd think herself unlucky with her judge. These thugs got suspended sentences.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-26567003

[andy-hughes]

sunny-dave - "I have every sympathy for people with mental health issues - but some actions are just so far removed from civilised behaviour that no amount of 'making allowances' will excuse them."

No-one is suggesting that making allowances is an appropriate response. What I am saying is that mental illness can and does cause people to behave in a way that the rest of society finds morally repugnant, but that is because of their mental illness, and should not be confused with simple wanton cruelty for its own sake. No-one would say - 'You are mentally ill, so we won't bother about what you did ...', but hopefully would say 'You are mentally ill and need treatment and support'.

"This was a barbaric act, carried out on a defenceless creature - I just can't accept the playing of the mental health defence as a "get out of jail free card"."

As i said, no-one should suggest that this action is excused by mental illness, but it is explained by it. I don't believe that anyone who has direct experience of mental illness would agree with it as a 'get out of jail free' card - that is somewhat adrift of the causes and effects of what mental illness is about.

"Nor does "what good does prison do for women" cut much ice with me - the sentence is a punishment - it needed to be significantly longer."

The concept of punishment is only valid if the action demands it, and the perpatrator understands the concept of punishment, and that punishment is going to deter them in the future.

I believe none of those provisos are in place here - this woman is unlikely to understand the notion of punishment, or indeed of wrong-doing - it is possible that her mental condition puts the comprehension of such concepts out of her reach - but that is for professionals to assess and advise.

I would simply say that we should not jump to conclusions based on the tragedy of the action - but should be willing to accept that tragedy of illness that has helped to cause it.

[RATTER15]

//Her solicitor, Alan Greaves, said Cunliffe had longstanding problems with psychotic depression and had been sectioned under the Mental Health Act 20 times.//

It isnt as simple as just locking her up, she clearly needs a lot more help and possibly living in sheltered accommodation and her behaviours monitored or possible being kept in a secure unit of some description.

[sunny-dave]

Andy - thank you for taking the time to post such a detailed response.

I actually agree with virtually everything you say - my disgust at the nature of her actions may have clouded my opinion in this case.

We are, however, both guessing in the dark about her precise state of mind at the time of the incident and also about her understanding of the concepts of right/wrong in general.

Ratter's response is excellent.

thanks

dave


PS: your comments about the concept of punishment are interesting - and possibly worthy of a separate debate - but is punishment really not valid unless it will deter further crimes?

[RATTER15]

Jeza //This article really makes me want to throw up. What kind of person must she be?//

A mentally ill person. She clearly isn't getting the level of support that she needs, she is being let down by society.

I worked with many people like this, they have very little concept of right and wrong.

[jim360]

"But she cruelly microwaved it for five minutes."

That's not what the article says, though...

"The court heard Cunliffe put the kitten into the microwave and switched it on but took the animal out about a minute later when she realised what she had done. "

Taking that at face value suggests that even at the time, albeit tragically far too late, she came to her senses and tried to rescue the kitten. She still has the crime of putting it there in the first place. But to say that she kept it inside the microwave for the full five minutes is to exaggerate her crime. The crime was similar to her "lashing out".

[RATTER15]

sunny-dave //but is punishment really not valid unless it will deter further crimes?//

It really does depend on her level of understanding of what she has done, I would imagine that in this case she has had her mental condition fully explored and they have decided that this punishment is appropriate as it sometimes is. Not knowing all the ins and outs it is impossible for us to to judge.