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Plebgate Officers Recalled To Parliament.
// Home affairs committee chairman Keith Vaz said: "We were appalled by the evidence given by DS Hinton, Sgt Jones and Inspector MacKaill. We have recalled them to correct the record and if they do not, they will be in prima facie contempt of Parliament.
"The narrative of what we have seen could rival any great work of fiction.
"At every point and at every level, instead of being transparent, we have uncovered a process that obstructs the truth. If this can happen to a cabinet minister, what hope is there for anyone else?" //
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Is it arrogance or contempt for the public that makes them believe they have done nothing wrong? They totally misrepresented an MP, they lied about the meeting and lied to the country via their statement to the media afterwards. Forunately Mitchell had made a recording of the meeting which totally contradicted the three police federation representatives.
How can these officers still have a job?
"The narrative of what we have seen could rival any great work of fiction.
"At every point and at every level, instead of being transparent, we have uncovered a process that obstructs the truth. If this can happen to a cabinet minister, what hope is there for anyone else?" //
http://
Is it arrogance or contempt for the public that makes them believe they have done nothing wrong? They totally misrepresented an MP, they lied about the meeting and lied to the country via their statement to the media afterwards. Forunately Mitchell had made a recording of the meeting which totally contradicted the three police federation representatives.
How can these officers still have a job?
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it is widely agreed that police are above the laws they enforce, whether killing passing plumbers and chair-leg-carriers or in fitting up ministers of the crown. It would be nice if this were about to change.
It is noteworthy however that despite multiple abuses in the past, our MPs have done nothing about it until it happened to one of them.
It is noteworthy however that despite multiple abuses in the past, our MPs have done nothing about it until it happened to one of them.
Policemen have to do really terrible things before they are sacked, and even then they get off scott-free.
No policeman, for instance, was ever sacked for his part in the wrongful prosecution of the Birmingham Six, the Guildford Four and the Maquire Seven. We have the real inquests into the Hillsboro Disaster coming up next March and who want to bet that no serving or retired Officer will be found at fault and be punished ?
They are out of control and nobody trusts them anymore. The result of this is that if you are on a jury in a court of law, and a Plod stands in the witness box, with his shiny buttons on, the chances are that you will think twice, or even three times, before you accept his evidence. This shouldn't be...that the Police should be believed is a given right and now they have abused that privilege.
In 1988, Lord Denning said something very controversial and shocking, about the The Birmingham Six... "It is better that some innocent men remain in jail than that the integrity of the English judicial system be impugned "
It would seem that our Police work on the same principle...just keep lying and you will get away with it eventually.
No policeman, for instance, was ever sacked for his part in the wrongful prosecution of the Birmingham Six, the Guildford Four and the Maquire Seven. We have the real inquests into the Hillsboro Disaster coming up next March and who want to bet that no serving or retired Officer will be found at fault and be punished ?
They are out of control and nobody trusts them anymore. The result of this is that if you are on a jury in a court of law, and a Plod stands in the witness box, with his shiny buttons on, the chances are that you will think twice, or even three times, before you accept his evidence. This shouldn't be...that the Police should be believed is a given right and now they have abused that privilege.
In 1988, Lord Denning said something very controversial and shocking, about the The Birmingham Six... "It is better that some innocent men remain in jail than that the integrity of the English judicial system be impugned "
It would seem that our Police work on the same principle...just keep lying and you will get away with it eventually.
Andrew Mitchell was in my neck of the woods the other day, he would make no comment.
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I have the distinct feeling that all this business will eventually come out in the wash...we just have to be patient.
Far be for me to praise a Tory Cabinet Minister, but I think Mitchell has behaved perfectly in this matter. Well, perfectly after he admitted his guilt, which was a very time ago now. Now we need to see the Police displaying some humility here. They should stop behaving like childish pillocks !
Far be for me to praise a Tory Cabinet Minister, but I think Mitchell has behaved perfectly in this matter. Well, perfectly after he admitted his guilt, which was a very time ago now. Now we need to see the Police displaying some humility here. They should stop behaving like childish pillocks !
I smell hypocrisy here. Members of Parliament accusing police officers of lying, lack of transparency and processes that obstruct the truth. Pots calling kettles. What about the blatant dishonesty involved in all the dodgy expense claims and the various dishonest MPs who escaped punishment. No dragging them before the Public accounts committee was there. Only a relative few sent to the courts.
"How come they still have a job?"
How come jailed MPs are allowed to return to the HoC and jailed peers to the HoL?
"How come they still have a job?"
How come jailed MPs are allowed to return to the HoC and jailed peers to the HoL?
mikey, this is not new. For all I know, police have been verballing (inventing confessions or damning statements) and worse, for centuries. They were certainly doing it from 1969, and after PACE, and the instant case suggests that they are still at it.
Lord Denning, if quoted with precise accuracy, was saying that the system we have got is the best available. It is better, for the public good, that we suffer the inevitable wrong conviction than that we use that to abolish the system. Alfred Denning was the last person to approve of injustice; his whole career of taking the side of 'the little man' and devising intricate legal argument to use equity against literal law, shows that.
Lord Denning, if quoted with precise accuracy, was saying that the system we have got is the best available. It is better, for the public good, that we suffer the inevitable wrong conviction than that we use that to abolish the system. Alfred Denning was the last person to approve of injustice; his whole career of taking the side of 'the little man' and devising intricate legal argument to use equity against literal law, shows that.
Fred...My recollection of what Denning said in his taped interview with AN Wilson seems to differ from your somewhat rosy-eyed view :::
In the summer of 1990 he agreed to a taped interview with A.N. Wilson, to be published in The Spectator. They discussed the Guildford Four; Denning remarked that if the Guildford Four had been hanged "They'd probably have hanged the right men. Just not proved against them, that's all".[93] His remarks were controversial and came at a time when the issue of miscarriage of justice was a sensitive topic.[94] He had expressed a similar controversial opinion regarding the Birmingham Six in 1988, saying: "Hanging ought to be retained for murder most foul. We shouldn't have all these campaigns to get the Birmingham Six released if they'd been hanged. They'd have been forgotten, and the whole community would be satisfied... It is better that some innocent men remain in jail than that the integrity of the English judicial system be impugned."
The full Wiki entry is here :::
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He is quite clearly stating three things :::
1..that the Guildford Four were guilty,
2...they should have been hanged, despite not being guilty, and
3...Better innocent be jailed or hung, rather than the integrity of British Justice be impugned.
Denning may indeed have taken the side of "little men" but not, it would seem, if they were innocent men, fitted up by corrupt police evidence, along with a general incompetence of the judicial system.
His remarks regarding the issue of not having campaigns to clear innocents people, as long as they were hanged, is breathtaking in it ignorance and insensitivity. As he had a long and illustrious career, perhaps it is charitable to think that these remarks were due to his advanced age, rather than a reflection on humanity.
In the summer of 1990 he agreed to a taped interview with A.N. Wilson, to be published in The Spectator. They discussed the Guildford Four; Denning remarked that if the Guildford Four had been hanged "They'd probably have hanged the right men. Just not proved against them, that's all".[93] His remarks were controversial and came at a time when the issue of miscarriage of justice was a sensitive topic.[94] He had expressed a similar controversial opinion regarding the Birmingham Six in 1988, saying: "Hanging ought to be retained for murder most foul. We shouldn't have all these campaigns to get the Birmingham Six released if they'd been hanged. They'd have been forgotten, and the whole community would be satisfied... It is better that some innocent men remain in jail than that the integrity of the English judicial system be impugned."
The full Wiki entry is here :::
http://
He is quite clearly stating three things :::
1..that the Guildford Four were guilty,
2...they should have been hanged, despite not being guilty, and
3...Better innocent be jailed or hung, rather than the integrity of British Justice be impugned.
Denning may indeed have taken the side of "little men" but not, it would seem, if they were innocent men, fitted up by corrupt police evidence, along with a general incompetence of the judicial system.
His remarks regarding the issue of not having campaigns to clear innocents people, as long as they were hanged, is breathtaking in it ignorance and insensitivity. As he had a long and illustrious career, perhaps it is charitable to think that these remarks were due to his advanced age, rather than a reflection on humanity.
Fred..you say that but what about your recent words on the subject :::
Alfred Denning was the last person to approve of injustice; his whole career of taking the side of 'the little man' and devising intricate legal argument to use equity against literal law, shows that.
How does that square with his comments about innocent men, made in 1990 ? Was he just a very old man, who "mis-spoke" in an interview with A N Wilson ?
Alfred Denning was the last person to approve of injustice; his whole career of taking the side of 'the little man' and devising intricate legal argument to use equity against literal law, shows that.
How does that square with his comments about innocent men, made in 1990 ? Was he just a very old man, who "mis-spoke" in an interview with A N Wilson ?
No,mikey, he was judicially aware of the standard of proof. He was saying that if these people had been hanged, the consolation would have been that they were probably guilty, though they were not provenly so beyond a reasonable doubt. Now, that would not make their deaths justified, but neither would it be reason to destroy the whole system which resulted in it.
but is destroying the whole system really the only alternative to hanging the innocent? That sounds like a false dilemma on Denning's part.
In fact, what people seem to be happy enough with is the possibility of appeal even for murderers, compensation for those wrongly convicted, and public horsewhipping for corrupt coppers (I wish). The system remains undestroyed, despite Denning's nightmares.
In fact, what people seem to be happy enough with is the possibility of appeal even for murderers, compensation for those wrongly convicted, and public horsewhipping for corrupt coppers (I wish). The system remains undestroyed, despite Denning's nightmares.
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