Chelsea fans shout "Murderers".

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail....gedy-anniversary.html

/// Producers avoided showing pictures of abusive fans. Instead ITV filled half the screen with sombre images from Anfield stadium, ///

I wonder if these repulsive shouts of 'Murderers' would have been treated with the same obvious indifference, had they been racial connected shouts?

These abusive fans should have been shown, and action taken so as to ban them from attending further matches, especially the Cup Final.

[Mattk]

Football is a community and as such should remember tragedies from within that community.

Personally I think they should observe 96 seconds of silence.

[Arksided]

It was disgraceful, I'm not comfortable with the minutes applause the minutes silence should be observed. Although as in this case and many others it wasn't however unfortunate the circumstances of a tragedy that had occurred.

The truth is every Football club has Idiots like these and I'm sure like the true Chelsea supporters most Football supporters of their respective clubs are ashamed to be associated with them.

[FredPuli43]

aog "the people entering were unaware of the crush at the fence" (from your link, citing the Taylor report). Why do you use the emotive word 'stampede' which suggests that the fans had some exceptional intent or recklessness? They were not to know of any such risk. They were acting as a normal crowd in such circumstances; nobody, it seems, in their ranks was getting crushed or trampled. Do you live in a place where nobody ever jostles anybody in a crowd and never pushes forward ? (In which case a visit to an international rugby game, or a bus queue in a tourist area of London, would prove a disappointment!).

[anotheoldgit]

Sipowicz

/// When you're in a hole, stop digging! ///

Obviously a new boy on here, but it hasn't took you long to get in with the system of aggressive answers, when there is not call for them.

If you had really examined the exchange between myself and my old adversary Zeuhl, you would not have failed to notice his answer to me.

/// Hardly surprising then that <four days after the disaster> police officers' knee jerk reaction would be to point fingers elsewhere. ///

/// The police are good at misinformation - ///

I know what the the finding of "The official inquiry" were, but the passages above were Zeuhl's words, and he was obviously also blaming the police.

[joko]

well said dave and mattk

i am astonished by the way some seek to almost defend actions like this... and almost implying that the 96 deserved what happened and that anyone who gives a sh!t what happened is not allowed to show it

[anotheoldgit]

Saki

/// Yes AOG, but the Chelsea fans were also referring to Heysel! ///

I may be missing something here, so can you please point to the evidence for that?

[MrsGillseldest]

Davethedog at Heysel some of the fans were sat on the
terracing near the wall these were the first to get crushed.
If the wall was more solid fans would have been crushed
against the wall just like the fans at Sheffied

[Zeuhl]

<<he was obviously also blaming the police>>

How could <I> do that?
I wasn't there and have not made a study of all the evidence.

The official Enquiry did and the subsequent Taylor Report concluded that:

"the main reason for the disaster was the failure of police control."

That has influenced my opinion in <<blaming the police>>

Don't you also 'blame the police' or do you have a special insight above and beyond the official enquiry that you can share with us here?

[Saki]

AOG, you are obviously confused, ever since Heysel 1985, opposition supporters have "wound up" Liverpool supporters by shouting "Murderers" at them, in reference to the disaster. My evidence for this? Attending football matches. Any thing else I can help you with!

[Sipowicz]

Zeuhl, Saki, I fear we are wasting our time. AOG sees what he wants to see!

[Davethedog]

Mrsgilldest There were no seats in the pens for either supporters it was open terracing.

As I said do some research, I saw the disaster, look at the pictures it was an open terrace, but then wikipedia says seated doesn't it

http://tdifh.blogspot...stadium-disaster.html

Where are the seats

[MrsGillseldest]

( Davethedog at Heysel some of the fans were sat on the
terracing near the wall these were the first to get crushed. )

They were sat on the concrete steps near the wall, I also watched this on the television

[joko]

mrsgillseldest - so what? are you suggesting the 96 dont deserve respect because of something that happened a few years earlier - that was not the fault of people from liverpool?

to chant 'murderer' is disgusting enough - especially in the spirit of a GAME - but to do it all through a minutes silence is just revolting...

[Gromit]

DTCrosswordfan.

I consider your post (below) to be at best a dubious stereotype and possibly worse.

//The Chinese were stepping outside for a pee... You can imagine the Japs underneath "Ayaaah, now rainin Hinese Kamikaze boms" //

I passed comment that you and AOG share the same sense of 'humour'.

Not sure why I needed to explain it.

[anotheoldgit]

FredPuli43

/// Why do you use the emotive word 'stampede' which suggests that the fans had some exceptional intent or recklessness? ///

What next? It now seems I am having to vindicate my terminology.

Perhaps it should be myself, who is now drawing attention to your failed analogy?

How can you possible compare an estimated 5,000 fans trying to get through the turnstiles, with a bus queue in a tourist area of London?

If you read this link:

http://en.wikipedia.o...Hillsborough_disaster

/// It was reported that fans had been delayed by unannounced roadworks on the M62 motorway over the Pennines and the resulting road congestion. Between 2:30 pm and 2:40 pm, there was a big build-up of fans in the small area outside the turnstile entrances to the Leppings Lane End, all eager to enter the stadium quickly before the match started. ///

/// the police, to avoid deaths outside the ground, opened a set of gates, intended as an exit, which did not have turnstiles (Gate C). This decision allowed a rush of impetuous supporters through the gate into the stadium. ///

Now I think I would be right to assume that there would have been a stampede, not just a casual 'walk in the park'?

[MrsGillseldest]

joko ( mrsgillseldest - so what? are you suggesting the 96 dont deserve respect because of something that happened a few years earlier - that was not the fault of people from liverpool? )

Please show me where i have said the 96 do not deserve any respect.

joko how did non Liverpool fans get tickets to the Liverpool section at the Euro Cup Final

[anotheoldgit]

Sipowicz, Zeuhl, Saki, Why can't you three just join in a perfectly reasonable debate, without the need to turn it into some sort of slanging match?

I would expect this kind of thing in a school playground, but it seems that some of you have not yet started back after your Easter break.

[Zeuhl]

<stampede>

Well i don't know when you were last at a major football match Old Git but my occasional experiences over the past 45 years or so is that the movements of a crowd outside a ground are largely governed by the 'herding' tactics of the police particularly the mounted officers.

In other words, when the the police say 'move' you 'stampede' or get trodden on by the horses.

The official enquiry found that on this occasion the 'crowd management' left a lot to be desired.

Thank you Old Git for posting details of one of the Police's principal errors in their handling of the crowds that day

<<the police, to avoid deaths outside the ground, opened a set of gates, intended as an exit, which did not have turnstiles (Gate C). This decision allowed a rush of impetuous supporters through the gate into the stadium.>>

The enquiry found that this lack of coordination, planning and 'due care' amounted to negligence.

[joko]

not in so many words no...but you keep making comments as though you support what chelsea have done

what do you mean 'how did non liverpool fans get tickets?' ANYONE can buy a ticket - they do not check you are a genuine supporter!

see what i mean? stirring and irrelevant comments