ChatterBank10 mins ago
Rogue US Soldier Kills 16 Afghan Civilians
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17330205
Sadly there are a number of women and children involved.
There will no doubt be repercussions to this as tensions are already high.
Sadly there are a number of women and children involved.
There will no doubt be repercussions to this as tensions are already high.
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Did you say "perils of war" when it was a rogue Afghan soldier killing 3 British troops?
http://www.thenationa...-three-british-troops
I don't recall sympathy for the disturbed mind of that Afghan soldier.
http://www.thenationa...-three-british-troops
I don't recall sympathy for the disturbed mind of that Afghan soldier.
This will surely hasten the exit of US troops from Afghanistan. The mind goes back to those awful images in Vietnam where children were numbered against the casualtues from Napalm bombs.
This video is not for the squeamish:
http://www.doobybrain...bomb-drop-on-vietnam/
This video is not for the squeamish:
http://www.doobybrain...bomb-drop-on-vietnam/
there are conflicting reports as of whether it was a lone soldier or a group of drunken american soldiers,if it was the latter then it was a pre meditated act,but you dont know how the horrors of war affect the mind until you have actually been in the theatre of war,however the killing of innocent civilians and children is a war crime...but my guess is that the afghan taliban will avenge this masacre sooner rather than later...
No matter how many apologies and from whom, this murderous action will be embedded in each and ever Afghans minds for years to come, be them the Taliban or the ordinary Afghan people.
Since we have spent years and many service personnels lives trying to foster good relationships with the non-activist Afghans, all this 'good' work is now of no avail, due to this action.
So as not to risk further lives British lives due to this crime, the only solution is for us to at least to withdraw our troops now, regardless of what the US decides to do.
Since we have spent years and many service personnels lives trying to foster good relationships with the non-activist Afghans, all this 'good' work is now of no avail, due to this action.
So as not to risk further lives British lives due to this crime, the only solution is for us to at least to withdraw our troops now, regardless of what the US decides to do.
I don't often find myself in complete and total agreement with AOG on matters of military and foreign policy, but here I do agree that withdrawal is the only sensible solution.
Hanging on until 2014 as planned simply means that more deaths will occur on both sides. In terms of actual progress - whatever that is supposed to mean - there is none, will be none, and none can be seriously justified as a hope in hell.
All that remains is for the respective allied goverments to furnsih some kind of final speeches that do not make this campaign look like what it always was - an unrealistic aim with a tragically high cost - and try to convince the western world that they were justified in their invasion by what they leave behind.
The fact that what they leave is their supported corrupt puppet government which will be immeidately dismanlted by the Taliban - will have to be quietly ignored and forgotton.
If only the families of the dead and disabled had that option.
Hanging on until 2014 as planned simply means that more deaths will occur on both sides. In terms of actual progress - whatever that is supposed to mean - there is none, will be none, and none can be seriously justified as a hope in hell.
All that remains is for the respective allied goverments to furnsih some kind of final speeches that do not make this campaign look like what it always was - an unrealistic aim with a tragically high cost - and try to convince the western world that they were justified in their invasion by what they leave behind.
The fact that what they leave is their supported corrupt puppet government which will be immeidately dismanlted by the Taliban - will have to be quietly ignored and forgotton.
If only the families of the dead and disabled had that option.
This doesn't really change anything.
Since the very moment we invaded the country in 2001 we have been targets of the Taliban. Over 400 service personnel have been killed. Our standing with the local community has been very low for a long time due to friendly fire incidents and a disregard for civilian casualties.
So yet another unfortunate incident doesn't really make the place very much more unsafe to be a British soldier than it already is.
Everyone is agreed we need to leave, but to hand the Taliban a last minute victory would be a betrayal of the 400+ men and women who have paid with their lives. We need to stay until the successful handover of the Afghan Security has any hope of keeping order. Hopefully that is very soon.
Since the very moment we invaded the country in 2001 we have been targets of the Taliban. Over 400 service personnel have been killed. Our standing with the local community has been very low for a long time due to friendly fire incidents and a disregard for civilian casualties.
So yet another unfortunate incident doesn't really make the place very much more unsafe to be a British soldier than it already is.
Everyone is agreed we need to leave, but to hand the Taliban a last minute victory would be a betrayal of the 400+ men and women who have paid with their lives. We need to stay until the successful handover of the Afghan Security has any hope of keeping order. Hopefully that is very soon.
Gromit - that is the stated intention of the Allied Forces, but it is never going to be a reality.
Once the interference from outsiders vanishes - and that is how the Taliban see it - theings will return to normal in Afghanistan. When the Russians departed, they left a land covered in confusion, directionless and without leadership and order.
The people welcomed the next organisation to come in and create some order and stability in the country. They were called the Taliban.
Once the interference from outsiders vanishes - and that is how the Taliban see it - theings will return to normal in Afghanistan. When the Russians departed, they left a land covered in confusion, directionless and without leadership and order.
The people welcomed the next organisation to come in and create some order and stability in the country. They were called the Taliban.
Gromit
/// When we leave there should be the Afghan Security Forces in place. ///
There is no reason that the Afghan Security Forces can't be fully implemented now, instead of us hanging on for a further 2 years, so as to finalise their training.
Our service personnel receive a lot less training, before they are thrown into the deep end of this quagmire of a land.
/// When we leave there should be the Afghan Security Forces in place. ///
There is no reason that the Afghan Security Forces can't be fully implemented now, instead of us hanging on for a further 2 years, so as to finalise their training.
Our service personnel receive a lot less training, before they are thrown into the deep end of this quagmire of a land.
Gromit - it doesn't matter if the Afghan Security Force is in place - the Taliban are merely waiting out the time until they can sweep back in with the backing of the majrotiy of the people - which they will have - sweep away the corrupt puppet government that the Allies have propped up -and then return to the normal situation - this invasion, like the others, being a mere blip.
-- answer removed --
That's as may be fender 62, but just because a situation is undesireable, and another country has a system of government that prevents that situation is never a gaurerntee that enforcing one system on the other country is going to work, or be sustainable in the long term.
Wanting people not to be opressed is not the same as being able to make it happen - if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
Wanting people not to be opressed is not the same as being able to make it happen - if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
I don't think it's quite that cut and dried anymore andy though. For sure the Taliban have their supporters, but a majority? I dn't think so necessarily. As Gromit said we should at least have the decency to give those who don't support the Taliban a fighting chance by leaving them as equipped as possible to deal with them. Wanting to help is not the same as being able to help that's very true, but it is the first step in actually helping, just throwing in the towel should never be an option just because it's the easy way out. Right and wrong have to play a part in decision making.
Recent experience is that elements in the Libyan and Syrian populations stood up against oppression either with limited support or no support from the West.
The Afghan people seem to be either orientated toward the Taliban or apathetic or at best resigned to them eventually taking power again.
Several years of active demonstrations of support from the West seem to have done little to change that. People who queue to enrol as police officers do so because they want a job. They would do the same for any regime that paid them a wage.
Where are the queues of Afghans who just want three things; weapons, ammo and a ride to wherever the enemy are - as we saw in Libya?
The Afghan people seem to be either orientated toward the Taliban or apathetic or at best resigned to them eventually taking power again.
Several years of active demonstrations of support from the West seem to have done little to change that. People who queue to enrol as police officers do so because they want a job. They would do the same for any regime that paid them a wage.
Where are the queues of Afghans who just want three things; weapons, ammo and a ride to wherever the enemy are - as we saw in Libya?
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