Spectator N0 2651 By Fieldfare
Crosswords0 min ago
Who and what was to blame for the riots?
41 Answers
People quizzed who said a cause was 'important' or 'very important'
Poverty - 86%
Policing - 85%
Government policy - 80%
Unemployment - 79%
Shooting of Mark Duggan - 75% (pictured above)
Social media - 74%
Media coverage - 72%
Greed - 70%
Inequality - 70%
Boredom - 68%
Criminality - 64%
Moral decline - 56%
Racial tensions - 54%
Poor parenting - 40%
Gangs - 32%
Source: Guardian
Interesting to note that 'Poverty' heads the list.
Did they pillage the supermarkets for food to feed their poverty stricken families?
No it was the free 'big tellies' that attracted them.
Poverty - 86%
Policing - 85%
Government policy - 80%
Unemployment - 79%
Shooting of Mark Duggan - 75% (pictured above)
Social media - 74%
Media coverage - 72%
Greed - 70%
Inequality - 70%
Boredom - 68%
Criminality - 64%
Moral decline - 56%
Racial tensions - 54%
Poor parenting - 40%
Gangs - 32%
Source: Guardian
Interesting to note that 'Poverty' heads the list.
Did they pillage the supermarkets for food to feed their poverty stricken families?
No it was the free 'big tellies' that attracted them.
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Here is a recent admission,
"claimed he was 'a bystander that got caught up in the heat of the moment’
"‘I think in the back of my mind I was thinking everybody is doing it and I literally got sucked in"
http://www.dailymail....on-riots-looting.html
"claimed he was 'a bystander that got caught up in the heat of the moment’
"‘I think in the back of my mind I was thinking everybody is doing it and I literally got sucked in"
http://www.dailymail....on-riots-looting.html
I'm currently reading 'State Of Emergency' by Dominic Sandbrook (excellent modern historian - I recommend him).
Did you know that the winter of discontent wasn't actually created by the Labour administration?
That's something Sandbrook spends quite some time on. It's astonishing how many people believe that - but it's simply not true. The winter of discontent was created by both the Tories and Labour and by the system of 'consensus politics' throughout the 50s, 60s and 70.
If you want an idea of what was happening - read up o. How Heath capitulated to the miners in '72. Read up about the social contract, and how the unions' wage claims forced inflation to spiral. But most of all, remember that this was happening under BOTH Labour and Conservative administrations.
Did you know that the winter of discontent wasn't actually created by the Labour administration?
That's something Sandbrook spends quite some time on. It's astonishing how many people believe that - but it's simply not true. The winter of discontent was created by both the Tories and Labour and by the system of 'consensus politics' throughout the 50s, 60s and 70.
If you want an idea of what was happening - read up o. How Heath capitulated to the miners in '72. Read up about the social contract, and how the unions' wage claims forced inflation to spiral. But most of all, remember that this was happening under BOTH Labour and Conservative administrations.
I knew that sp, you will often here me *** off Heath as much as the Labour government. The issue was that the unions got too powerful and governements of either side failed to sort it out. In fact it was a common cross party belief that the rot could not be stopped merely managed into what would become little more than a Soviet puppet state.
-- answer removed --
This was a survey carried out by LSE and The Guardian, interviewing 270 of the rioters. It seems to me that the interviewees have had sufficient time to fall in line with all the social excuses that have been put foreward for them by certain sectors of the media to give the answers recieved, rather than just pure oportunistic theft
The only people to blame are the people who rioted. Demonstrate against what you see as injustice - yes - but there can be no justification whatsoever for wanton destruction and sheer greed - which was exactly what those people who damaged cars, and smashed, burned and looted those businesses displayed. Small shopkeepers working hard to make a living in difficult times were ruined as a result of their actions, and unless you support the principles of outright anarchy, that can't be right whatever your politics. People have to be made to take responsibility for their own actions - and society should insist that they do. No one should be making excuses for them.
Now there's a surprise – the rioters don't like the police! I wonder why? It couldn't be anything to do with the fact that the police stop people from carrying out illegal activity and that over three quarters of the people convicted for partaking in the riots already had at least one criminal conviction to their name?
I would be very interested to learn from the 270 interviewees who expressed a dislike of the police, just how many of them (or a close family relative) had a criminal conviction, caution or had been given a fixed penalty notice for some misdemeanor. Since the people who carried out the LSE / Guardian 'study' didn't think to record this information, we'll never know. However, I would hazard a guess that almost every single one would fit my above criteria.
I watched 'Newsnight' earlier which showed some of the interviews with the rioters and I was not surprised to hear their half-baked, badly thought out excuses for joining in with the riots. These morons like to blame everyone but themselves. The take no personal responsibility for their own actions because they've convinced themselves that they're actually the victims and not the perpetrators.
The real victims of this outrageous display of selfish greed and lawlessness are the law abiding citizens of this country. No one forced these criminally intent morons onto the streets and forced them to break the law. That was a decision that they each made individually.
I would be very interested to learn from the 270 interviewees who expressed a dislike of the police, just how many of them (or a close family relative) had a criminal conviction, caution or had been given a fixed penalty notice for some misdemeanor. Since the people who carried out the LSE / Guardian 'study' didn't think to record this information, we'll never know. However, I would hazard a guess that almost every single one would fit my above criteria.
I watched 'Newsnight' earlier which showed some of the interviews with the rioters and I was not surprised to hear their half-baked, badly thought out excuses for joining in with the riots. These morons like to blame everyone but themselves. The take no personal responsibility for their own actions because they've convinced themselves that they're actually the victims and not the perpetrators.
The real victims of this outrageous display of selfish greed and lawlessness are the law abiding citizens of this country. No one forced these criminally intent morons onto the streets and forced them to break the law. That was a decision that they each made individually.
One self confessed moron / rioter interviewed on Newsnight said (without a hint of irony) that he heard about the riots whilst he was on holiday. He said he couldn't wait to get back to Britain and join in. The poor, down-trodden young mite. Unable to be there at the start of the riots because he was on his foreign jollies.
It makes my blood boil.
It makes my blood boil.
Steve.5
/// In answer to your question, the people who created thos situation. And the so called beloved Tories have a very long history of creating social unrest & upheaval That is one lesson they never learn because their arrogance & ignorance defy any logic. ///
Typical,
"Keep the Red Flag flying high"
The reason that there is social unrest & upheaval when the Tories are in power is because the 'Left' create the unrest, because they have always wanted a one party state (their's), it is a communistic thing.
/// In answer to your question, the people who created thos situation. And the so called beloved Tories have a very long history of creating social unrest & upheaval That is one lesson they never learn because their arrogance & ignorance defy any logic. ///
Typical,
"Keep the Red Flag flying high"
The reason that there is social unrest & upheaval when the Tories are in power is because the 'Left' create the unrest, because they have always wanted a one party state (their's), it is a communistic thing.
If I remember the order of events...the spark that lit the first powder keg in Tottenham was due to the insouciance,and misreading the seriousness of a situation by police sat in the local Police Station.Initially,a small group of female relatives of Mark Duggan went to their Police Station seeking answers.
No Officer came to meet them.Who knows? may be they already knew that the armed Officers at the Duggan incident had acted contrary to the Law?
They kept these women waiting so long.without one word of explanation,or any assurances,that a crowd steadily gathered.When nighttime came,the numbers had swelled.It just needed a few with violent intent,to whip up a crowd becoming increasingly angered at being ignored and treated Shabbily.
For creating that spark,on that night in Tottenham..The Police must take a long,hard look at themselves.An explanation and a profound apology on that afternoon,may have prevented the ensuing orgy of Destruction and mass Theft imo.
No Officer came to meet them.Who knows? may be they already knew that the armed Officers at the Duggan incident had acted contrary to the Law?
They kept these women waiting so long.without one word of explanation,or any assurances,that a crowd steadily gathered.When nighttime came,the numbers had swelled.It just needed a few with violent intent,to whip up a crowd becoming increasingly angered at being ignored and treated Shabbily.
For creating that spark,on that night in Tottenham..The Police must take a long,hard look at themselves.An explanation and a profound apology on that afternoon,may have prevented the ensuing orgy of Destruction and mass Theft imo.
The interview which summed it up for me was when a reporter followed a woman with a bag of loot, and she said "Well, I just been down the free shop".
There was a riot at the start, but all the lowlifes got on their Blackberries and Facebook, and the word went round - the police are busy, help yourselves.
Of course, to all the Lefties, this was quite excusable as a demonstration of how deprived these poor deserving citizens were.
They would borrow a few more billions to give them all big tellies.
There was a riot at the start, but all the lowlifes got on their Blackberries and Facebook, and the word went round - the police are busy, help yourselves.
Of course, to all the Lefties, this was quite excusable as a demonstration of how deprived these poor deserving citizens were.
They would borrow a few more billions to give them all big tellies.
Atrollope - “... a small group of female relatives of Mark Duggan went to their Police Station seeking answers... They kept these women waiting so long without one word of explanation, or any assurances... The Police must take a long,hard look at themselves. An explanation and a profound apology on that afternoon,may have prevented the ensuing orgy of Destruction and mass Theft imo.”
That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. So am I and as such, I would like to address some of the points you make above. You say that some relatives of Mark Duggan went to the police station seeking answers. Answers to what? Who shot him? Why he was shot?
Why on earth would the police at a local police station have the answers to that question when Mr Duggan was shot by armed response officers of CO19? Armed response officers do not operate out of local police stations. This group of females (in their naivety) went to the wrong place and expected to get answers from people who simply didn't have them. When they didn't get the answers they demanded, violence ensued. You say that the police must now apologise for their actions and that their failure to do so resulted in the riots.
Complete apologist hogwash.
No one is the blame for the riots except the rioters. Being angry at not getting the answers you want is not an excuse to commit criminal damage, arson, to loot shops and put innocent people's lives at risk. The very idea that the police are responsible for the riots is twisted in its logic and perverse in its thinking.
It's precisely this kind of inverted reasoning that has resulted in the modern day phenomena whereby the perpetrator of a crime spontaneously morphs into the victim and the victim into the perpetrator.
For more light-hearted but no less serious take on this matter, see here...
http://www.thedailyma...rned-up-201112054627/
That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. So am I and as such, I would like to address some of the points you make above. You say that some relatives of Mark Duggan went to the police station seeking answers. Answers to what? Who shot him? Why he was shot?
Why on earth would the police at a local police station have the answers to that question when Mr Duggan was shot by armed response officers of CO19? Armed response officers do not operate out of local police stations. This group of females (in their naivety) went to the wrong place and expected to get answers from people who simply didn't have them. When they didn't get the answers they demanded, violence ensued. You say that the police must now apologise for their actions and that their failure to do so resulted in the riots.
Complete apologist hogwash.
No one is the blame for the riots except the rioters. Being angry at not getting the answers you want is not an excuse to commit criminal damage, arson, to loot shops and put innocent people's lives at risk. The very idea that the police are responsible for the riots is twisted in its logic and perverse in its thinking.
It's precisely this kind of inverted reasoning that has resulted in the modern day phenomena whereby the perpetrator of a crime spontaneously morphs into the victim and the victim into the perpetrator.
For more light-hearted but no less serious take on this matter, see here...
http://www.thedailyma...rned-up-201112054627/
^ I think that you're being completely unrealistic. There's no way that the people who descended upon the police station in Tottenham could have been placated or persuaded to go home peacefully. They didn't come to calmly debate the issue – they came to protest in the most vociferous way.
There's no way that a police spokesperson could have diffused that situation. The reason being because the people who attended the initial protest weren't interested in hearing what the police had to say - they were interested in confrontation and confrontation only. They were angry and they wanted the police (and everyone else) to know it.
There's no way that a police spokesperson could have diffused that situation. The reason being because the people who attended the initial protest weren't interested in hearing what the police had to say - they were interested in confrontation and confrontation only. They were angry and they wanted the police (and everyone else) to know it.
The way I heard it,the small delegation of women arrived early in the day at Tottenham...that was the time,or soon after,to nip things in the bud.
Tottenham is a difficult place to Police,no -one would deny that.
Thus the Police and the local community have seperate Grapevines,that filter information quickly...The Police were acutely aware of events,but sat on their hands...a crowd slowly gathered,some curious,others with deep-seated enmity toward the Police...the many young people routinely stopped for"stop&search"...The Police are known to use robust tactics ,and strip searches on people that do not immediately comply.You blame the rioters birdie..there were none,until the powder keg was lit at Tottenham..then all kinds of copy-cats came out the woodwork..all over England.
Tottenham is a difficult place to Police,no -one would deny that.
Thus the Police and the local community have seperate Grapevines,that filter information quickly...The Police were acutely aware of events,but sat on their hands...a crowd slowly gathered,some curious,others with deep-seated enmity toward the Police...the many young people routinely stopped for"stop&search"...The Police are known to use robust tactics ,and strip searches on people that do not immediately comply.You blame the rioters birdie..there were none,until the powder keg was lit at Tottenham..then all kinds of copy-cats came out the woodwork..all over England.
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