News0 min ago
Is the Golly offensive?
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http://tinyurl.com/6l6cwjc
Is the Golly offensive enough to cause two Prospective Tory councillors to quit, or are they victims of political correctness?
Please do not just condemn them just because they are Tories, please just debate the Golly issue.
Is the Golly offensive enough to cause two Prospective Tory councillors to quit, or are they victims of political correctness?
Please do not just condemn them just because they are Tories, please just debate the Golly issue.
Answers
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"
These dolls were made by the black locals, who obviously didn't find therm offensive at all."
How do you know?
How do you know they weren't making them just to scrape together some profit (seeing as there's clearly a market for these things)? How do you know they weren't being made to sell them/produce them by somebody else? How do you know that the people selling were aware of the doll's connotations at all? To assume their own stance on these toys purely because they were selling them isn't terribly logical unless you had any involved interaction with them.
These dolls were made by the black locals, who obviously didn't find therm offensive at all."
How do you know?
How do you know they weren't making them just to scrape together some profit (seeing as there's clearly a market for these things)? How do you know they weren't being made to sell them/produce them by somebody else? How do you know that the people selling were aware of the doll's connotations at all? To assume their own stance on these toys purely because they were selling them isn't terribly logical unless you had any involved interaction with them.
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Kromovaracun
/// How do you know they weren't making them just to scrape together some profit (seeing as there's clearly a market for these things///
If they found them at all offensive they would have never thought of producing them to scape together some profit or otherwise.
Would you get a Jewish person making anything pertaining to the Nazis for instance?
/// How do you know that the people selling were aware of the doll's connotations at all? ///
So you are saying that these Cubans are ignorant then, or should they first be told what is perceived as offensive by their counterparts in other parts of the Western World?
Wait a moment, isn't that what we are being told also?
/// How do you know they weren't making them just to scrape together some profit (seeing as there's clearly a market for these things///
If they found them at all offensive they would have never thought of producing them to scape together some profit or otherwise.
Would you get a Jewish person making anything pertaining to the Nazis for instance?
/// How do you know that the people selling were aware of the doll's connotations at all? ///
So you are saying that these Cubans are ignorant then, or should they first be told what is perceived as offensive by their counterparts in other parts of the Western World?
Wait a moment, isn't that what we are being told also?
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triggerhippy & pixi-
Don't try and take it out of context.
I was merely answering Kromovaracun who asked me "how do you know they didn't find it offensive"
I asked if they did, would they even think of making them?
Just as a Jew would not dream of making anything offensive to himself, ie anything appertaining to the Nazis.
The whole debate revolves around an object that some regard as 'OFFENSIVE' nothing more nothing less.
Don't try and take it out of context.
I was merely answering Kromovaracun who asked me "how do you know they didn't find it offensive"
I asked if they did, would they even think of making them?
Just as a Jew would not dream of making anything offensive to himself, ie anything appertaining to the Nazis.
The whole debate revolves around an object that some regard as 'OFFENSIVE' nothing more nothing less.
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this is the longest threat i have read in a while - very funny good work everyone
As for the question - "Is the Golly offensive enough to cause two Prospective Tory councillors to quit" - well clearly the answer is yes. The party is only a product that must be sold to the communities they server (or hope to server), in order to do this they need to appear to as broad a spectrum of people as possible and like the marmalade sellers the bosses obviously felt that gollywogs were not good for their brand image... presumably because enough people find them offensive to be bad for business
So there you go really - if they don't help sell jam they aren't going to help sell politicians. And if you wanted to be elected they should have had a bit more sense.
As for the question - "Is the Golly offensive enough to cause two Prospective Tory councillors to quit" - well clearly the answer is yes. The party is only a product that must be sold to the communities they server (or hope to server), in order to do this they need to appear to as broad a spectrum of people as possible and like the marmalade sellers the bosses obviously felt that gollywogs were not good for their brand image... presumably because enough people find them offensive to be bad for business
So there you go really - if they don't help sell jam they aren't going to help sell politicians. And if you wanted to be elected they should have had a bit more sense.
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"I asked if they did, would they even think of making them?"
Actually, yes. It's entirely feasible that they would if they knew that they sell. Or if somebody else learned that they sold and got them to sell them.
"So you are saying that these Cubans are ignorant then? "
I'm not trying to make any categorical statements about them - for all I know your assumptions about how they perceive these dolls could be true. But that's exactly what it is - assumption. Your observation from your Cuban holiday on its own does not amount to evidence. Honestly? I find the idea that an impoverished Cuban selling dolls to tourists in the street may well be ignorant of the connotations of what he's selling perfectly plausible.
"or should they first be told what is perceived as offensive by their counterparts in other parts of the Western World? "
Of course not.
But I'm not sure it's a coincidence that it's been educated blacks in America and Western Europe (followed or supported by most white academics in the relevant fields) that are the ones who have seen the offensive nature of the Golly. Again, I'm not stating this is a fact, but for all you know the same Cubans you're talking about could well see the dolls as offensive (if they don't already) if the history/connotations are explained to them.
Actually, yes. It's entirely feasible that they would if they knew that they sell. Or if somebody else learned that they sold and got them to sell them.
"So you are saying that these Cubans are ignorant then? "
I'm not trying to make any categorical statements about them - for all I know your assumptions about how they perceive these dolls could be true. But that's exactly what it is - assumption. Your observation from your Cuban holiday on its own does not amount to evidence. Honestly? I find the idea that an impoverished Cuban selling dolls to tourists in the street may well be ignorant of the connotations of what he's selling perfectly plausible.
"or should they first be told what is perceived as offensive by their counterparts in other parts of the Western World? "
Of course not.
But I'm not sure it's a coincidence that it's been educated blacks in America and Western Europe (followed or supported by most white academics in the relevant fields) that are the ones who have seen the offensive nature of the Golly. Again, I'm not stating this is a fact, but for all you know the same Cubans you're talking about could well see the dolls as offensive (if they don't already) if the history/connotations are explained to them.
I agree with kromo's first post, I'm not offended by them but why would I, if a black person was, I'd like to know why, but it's not implausible that they could have a very valid reason thus making them offensive. They are definitely potentially offensive.
By the by, has anyone ever noticed the sweets in Spain called 'Conguitos'?
By the by, has anyone ever noticed the sweets in Spain called 'Conguitos'?
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