Nelson Mandela - 'murdering Old Terrorist'

[sp1814]

...according to Nick Griffin

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/06/09/nick-griffin-insults-nelson-mandela_n_3410608.html

Who also charmingly cracked the following witticism:

'No surprise #Mandela’s lungs are shot - all those burning tyres. Smoking necklaces very bad for the health.’

Remember earlier this year after Thatcher died, and those who raised criticisms about her premiership were told that they were being disrespectful? Should the same apply to commentators on the political right, especially when the subject is still alive?

Or is this all fair comment?

[jno]

same rules will do for me; I thought AB unduly restrictive on comments made after Thatcher's death, but as long as it's the same rules for everyone that would be fair enough.

[craft1948]

I'm not sure on this. Would we restrict comments if the same were said about Robert Mugabe if he was in hospital?

[ichkeria]

I think the BNP have given up trying to pretend to be respectable since the UKIP "surge". Who was their candidate in Eastleigh with the joke tan? Wasn't sure she was making some sort of point about her party not being anti-Black (!)

[VHG]

You cant get away from the fact Mandela WAS a terrorist.

[mushroom25]

//You cant get away from the fact Mandela WAS a terrorist.//

So was Menachem Begin, later 6th Prime Minister of Israel. The bombing of the King David Hotel in 1946 was the "9/11" of its day.

[sp1814]

VHG

Not really the point. I'm asking whether he should be afforded the same respect demanded of Thatcher.

And the charge of terrorism...some call him a freedom fighter. I suppose it depends on your views of South African apartheid.

[Zeuhl]

VHF

The fundamental premise of Mandela' ANC was the avoidance of taking human life and attacks on government installations not civilians

Deaths did not occur in ANC attacks until long after Mandela was incarcerated

[ll_billym]

It's fair in as much as he is entitled to his opinion, and his jokes, and for whatever reason - and this is not his 'fault' - his opinion gets a wide airing. For instance I would probably not have heard about this if it wasn't for this post in AB.

Personally I don't really care what Nick Griffin says about anything, disrespectful or not, why should I... I will never vote for the BNP out of principle so his tweets won't swing me one way or the other but there are some people that look up to him and his boldness just strengthens their beliefs or gives them courage to kick into action and the more public they get the more people they will reach.

I know it works both ways and publicising this may turn some people away from him but I'm sure the percentage 'damage', at least damage in my opinion would be far less if his tweets were only read by those that follow him on twitter, that should eliminate most of the population.

[cathfromsaron]

one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter ...

[douglas9401]

Nick Griffin: the actual model for the swivel-eyed loon.

[mikey4444]

The best disinfectant is fresh air. After Griffins's stint on Question Time, his Party, never terribly popular in the first place, sank without trace.

His remarks over Mandela are offensive but let this racist tw*t make a fool of himself as much as he likes. He is hammering nails into his own coffin every time.

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// Not really the point. I'm asking whether he should be afforded the same respect demanded of Thatcher. ///

Myself, whether or not one agrees with a person's politics, in circumstances such as this, respect should be shown no matter what.

But the problem here seems that some on the left, who showed disgusting little or no respect when Lady Thatcher died, are now expecting others to show respect for persons they hold dear.

Level playing fields and all that.

[sp1814]

AOG

I'm not sure who you're referring to in your statement.

[Epona]

Anotheroldgit wrote

//Myself, whether or not one agrees with a person's politics, in circumstances such as this, respect should be shown no matter what. //

So if this was Hitler in this situation (had he survived) would you have the same opinion? Mandela was responsible for many many deaths, whether they were civilian or not is irrelevant as he was not fighting a War. If Mandela was White and the things he had done were to Blacks then he would not be venerated as a Hero.

[McMouse]

Well he is a convicted terrorist. What is his legacy? South Africa is in a mess, HIV is rampant, there are mixed race rugby and cricket teams.

[jim360]

If Mandela were White opposing Black majority rule that was enforced oppressively, I still think he would have been a hero. If on the other hand he were enforcing that majority rule then he'd have been "the villain". But he wasn't -- he was opposing oppression.

If we accept that sometimes there is no alternative to violence, then why in your opinion was this not one of those times? Black people were being persecuted and oppressed in their own back yard. Peaceful protests early on in the campaign against this were largely ignored. Should he have carried on protesting peacefully when all it achieved was nothing?

[FredPuli43]

Mandela was not fighting a war but Hitler was, Epona. So, in your view, Hitler could have soldiers and civilians killed in the conflict but Mandela could not? That's an unusual argument.

[anotheoldgit]

Epona

/// So if this was Hitler in this situation (had he survived) would you have the same opinion? ///

Now how did I know someone would say exactly that, well I did when I put together my answer, but short of listing a whole number of history's murderous leaders, I decided to leave it up to the intelligence of the reader to make such exceptions, obviously I failed this one time.

[Epona]

FredPuli wrote // , Hitler could have soldiers and civilians killed in the conflict but Mandela could not? That's an unusual argument. //

Thats an unusual interpretation of my post. My reference to Hitler was as an example of the ridiculousness of AOG's sweeping statement that he would respect ALL political leaders in this situation regardless of his allegiance to their Policies or Politics.

[ludwig]

// ..the problem here seems that some on the left, who showed disgusting little or no respect when Lady Thatcher died, are now expecting others to show respect for persons they hold dear. //

It's a fair point. As obnoxious as Griffin and his comments are, the same kind of stuff was said about Thatcher.

I suppose it boils down to the fact that we all think the people we like and admire should be exempt from insults whereas the people we don't like or admire should be fair game for them.

As jno says, the same rules should apply in both cases.