Conspiracy of silence

[anotheoldgit]

http://tinyurl.com/39olp67

A few weeks ago I posted on what I thought was a conspiracy of silence surrounding the abduction of young white girls by gangs of Asian men.

On the front page of today's Times it is their headlines.

/// The Times has seen a briefing document by researchers at the UCL Jill Dando Institute of Security and Crime Science, which notes that victims are typically white girls aged 13 to 16 and that “most central offenders are Pakistani”, warning that “race is a delicate issue” that needs to be “handled sensitively but not brushed under the carpet”. The briefing document suggests that the offenders are not paedophiles; they target the girls “because of their malleability”.///

Why are they not paedophiles, some of these girls are only 11?

/// Chief Inspector Alan Edwards said: “These girls are being passed around and used as meat. To stop this type of crime you need to start talking about it, but everyone’s been too scared to address the ethnicity factor.///

Once again a prime example of be careful how you address sensitive issues in case you are called racist.

[jackthehat]

<<The briefing document suggests that the offenders are not paedophiles; they target the girls “because of their malleability”.>>

The age of the girls makes them far easier to manipulate and *that* is why they are targetted not because the men necessarily find them sexually alluring.

[anotheoldgit]

/// The age of the girls makes them far easier to manipulate and *that* is why they are targetted ///

Isn't that the paedophiles aim also, or could this be a paedophiles defence?

"I did not go with the child because I found her sexually alluring, it was just because of her age, that I found her easier to manipulate"

[jackthehat]

Paedophiles are sexually aroused by children and *that* is what motivates them.

If the men in your article thought that they could get away with trying the same tactics with older girls they would try. However, they have obviously realised that they may be less successful and *that* is why they have an age-group to target..........

[anotheoldgit]

jackthehat

I am afraid your defence of these Muslims not being paedophiles is not strengthened by this report.

http://tinyurl.com/55y7x3

[Ric.ror]

I agree that a person who has sex with a 13 year old is a paedophile but just who is supposed to be looking after these girls - it beggers belief that we as a society have no sense of collective responsibility about these children thereby allowing these freaks to exploit them - regardless of ethnicity

[seadogg]

Good point ric. The vulnerability of these girls reflects the attitudes of the parents. Too many kids come from chaotic and dysfunctional families. We lived very near a paedophile when I was a lad and he chose a boy from such a family and totally ignored the rest of us. Re the Pakistanis, their activities reflect the attitude some of them have towards the rest of us. People who don't share their values are there to exploit by a minority of them. When we had uniform neighbourhoods everybody kept an eye on the local childen. We are too anxious to keep a low profile and let things go today.

[youngmafbog]

And you are surprised AOG ?

Can't see many hand wringing liberal apologists on this thread yet though !

[jackthehat]

Of course there will be muslim paedophiles, however, your OP clearly refers to a situation where it is the easy manipulation of the young girls that is a the heart of the story.

[New Judge]

The "easy manipulation" may well be the heart of the story. But the heart of the so-called delicacy of the issue is the ethnicity of the alleged perpetrators.

If the alleged perpetrators were predominantly white Christians there would be no such conspiracy of silence. Nobody thinks twice about raising the issue of dodgy priests.

[Huderon]

AOG, do you actually real all of what is in the reports you point people to ?

//Stefano Dambruoso, Italy's anti-terror magistrate, said: “In our experience in investigating Islamic cells linked to al-Qaeda, they use pornographic images simply to camouflage the content of their messages. They use the images — of men, women and children — as an instrument to hide messages of quite a different content. //

It's called steganography, and has been around for quite some time and my reading of the report is that the child porn images are being used because paedophiles have become very good at hiding their activities in and on obscure parts of the net, which funnily enough is exactly what terrorists would want to do as well ... one group learning from the other or using the paedophile network to send their own messages hidden in images.

[birdie1971]

Hudon - “... one group learning from the other or using the paedophile network to send their own messages hidden in images.”

I disagree. Whilst I am familiar with both the concept and utilisation of steganography, I am also familiar with terrorists not wanting to draw too much attention to themselves. The idea that terrorists would disguise their intentions within pornographic pictures depicting paedophilia is quite frankly, ludicrous.

Given that just about every law enforcement organisation in the world has publicly pledged to investigate all websites that exchange paedophilic material, it would seem absurd that terrorists would chose this medium within which to hide their nefarious activities when they know that sooner or later, they will be subject to intense scrutiny. It is far more likely that terrorists (if using steganography) would chose a subject matter that would completely fail to arouse suspicion and investigative activities. Unless of course, all terrorists are monumentally stupid, which is probably and unfortunately not the case.

[birdie1971]

My above post should have been addressed to Huderon. Apologies.

[sp1814]

You have to be really careful about ascribing paedophilia to certain races in order not to offend people.

Because the vast majority of paedophile rings in thus country are from a particular racial group, you have to make sure that you couch your comments sensitively, so as not to make them embarrassed.

[birdie1971]

With reference to the original question, the religion of the Pakistanis wasn't mentioned. Given that 95-97% of Pakistanis are muslims, I think it is fair to suggest that these individuals are most likely muslims. I accept that this is an assumption and may be incorrect.

However, assuming that they are members of the Islamic faith, is it any wonder that they apparently see no wrong in having sex with very young girls? I wonder if the Prophet Mohammed has got anything to do with the Islamic attitude to sex with young girls? What with him marrying a six year old and consummating the marriage when she was nine years old?

Maybe that's got something to do with the Islamic religion being quite vague on this matter - “Islamic scholars state that no age limits have been fixed by Islam for marriage. Children of the youngest age may be married or promised for marriage, 'although a girl is not handed over to her husband until she is fit for marital congress'” - which I assume means puberty (which can vary dramatically – as young as 8 and as 'old' as 15).

http://en.wikipedia.o...ild_marriage#Pakistan

[Andyvon]

You are quite right Seadogg. I usually do our shopping at Tesco's about 3am when I have some time and there's no one about.

I frequently see groups of youngsters hanging around outside the doors at that time and they often go inside when I'm there. I know many children look older than their years today - but these only look about 14 at the most! The girls are yelling, screaming and running up and down the aisles while the boys wander around smirking with their hands in their hoodies. They go up to the drinks aisle, help themselves to what they want, then check it out on the self-service checkouts before going outside to carry on boozing. When I point out to the ladies on duty near the tills that these kids should at least look 18, they shrug their shoulders and say "What can you do? We don't want any trouble" The security guards on the door do nothing at all.

I mention this to people and most initially wonder why the parents allow it. Then we realise that these are probably children of unmarried mothers who have never had a father at home. The mother has probably given up and wants to be out with their latest boyfriends not caring what their children are doing. We have created a social disaster in this country.

[New Judge]

“Because the vast majority of paedophile rings in thus country are from a particular racial group, you have to make sure that you couch your comments sensitively, so as not to make them embarrassed.”

Not if that sensitivity trumps the need for the matter to be properly discussed and investigated you don’t, sp.

It’s often unfortunate that some sections of society are embarrassed by the behaviour of some of their members. I sometimes cringe at the behaviour of many Brits when I am abroad. However, my embarrassment does not mean that the authorities should not investigate that behaviour and take whatever action they think fit. You do not hear foreign police forces “treading carefully” so as not to offend the large majority of law-abiding UK travellers when a few of their compatriots cause mayhem in the streets.

This issue has been around for a long time. The time has come when the sensitivities of Pakistani Muslims (or indeed any other group who seem to be predominantly involved) will have to take second place to the need to enforce the law.

[Huderon]

Birdie, the first paragraph of AOG's second link specifically refers to a crossover between people into child porn and terrorists.

//Given that just about every law enforcement organisation in the world has publicly pledged to investigate all websites that exchange paedophilic material, it would seem absurd that terrorists would chose this medium within which to hide their nefarious activities when they know that sooner or later, they will be subject to intense scrutiny//

Use something other than port 80, change the port number regularly, hide the real content behind something innocent looking which could be interpreted as a private website used for testing or for close friends, make sure that the pages are ignored by web crawlers (which will be looking at port 80 anyway), possibly make sure that the server only responds to requests from specific IP addresses - hardly rocket science is it ?

Oh, and if you are a terrorist, and have the kind of paranoid mindset that makes secrecy and security a given, using hidden websites which can't be traced back to you seems like a pretty good idea.

[birdie1971]

Huderon - “... [terrorists should/are hiding] the real content behind something innocent looking...”


Thanks for the IT lecture – I don't need it but thanks for sharing. You've kind of shot yourself in the foot here. You initially agreed with Stefano Dambruoso and stated that terrorists are hiding their secrets within pornographic material – specifically kiddy porn. I suggested that this would be a particularly poor idea seeing as this type of material comes under a great deal of scrutiny by law enforcement agencies the world over.

Now you are stating that terrorists should/are hiding their nasty intentions within “...something innocent looking...”, which is what I said they are most probably doing anyway.

It appears we are now in agreement – using illegal pornographic images to hide terrorist plans is a sure-fire way to bring yourself to the attention of the police.