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Given a house - Need to change title deeds
44 Answers
Hi All,
Bit of a long story so here goes.
I have been given a house and need to get the title deeds in my name but lost as how to do this.
The house was originally my grand parents who died 20 ish years ago. My parents then lived in this house untill there death 2 years ago. Since its been empty and falling apart so i have no renovated it and just moving in. I have found some old deeds and they show it still in my grandads name. Also the road was renumbered stlightly when new hosues where built about 15 years ago so the house number is now different to that on the old deeds.
So its really two things i need to do. Get it in my name and then sort out the issue with the address. I checked stamp duty and it looks like i dont have to pay any as not going to resell the hosue and no money was transferred. I have never seen any wills etc passing the house down from grandparent to parents to me. I have no other family except a younger brother so i presumme naturally the house gets left to me.
Trying to do this without the additional cost of a solicitor as just spent 30k on sorting the hosue and im skint now lol. Its driving me mad as i dont know where to start.
Thanks everyone
Bit of a long story so here goes.
I have been given a house and need to get the title deeds in my name but lost as how to do this.
The house was originally my grand parents who died 20 ish years ago. My parents then lived in this house untill there death 2 years ago. Since its been empty and falling apart so i have no renovated it and just moving in. I have found some old deeds and they show it still in my grandads name. Also the road was renumbered stlightly when new hosues where built about 15 years ago so the house number is now different to that on the old deeds.
So its really two things i need to do. Get it in my name and then sort out the issue with the address. I checked stamp duty and it looks like i dont have to pay any as not going to resell the hosue and no money was transferred. I have never seen any wills etc passing the house down from grandparent to parents to me. I have no other family except a younger brother so i presumme naturally the house gets left to me.
Trying to do this without the additional cost of a solicitor as just spent 30k on sorting the hosue and im skint now lol. Its driving me mad as i dont know where to start.
Thanks everyone
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I can assure you this is not a wind up.
There is no pressure at all on anything relating to the house. Just something on the to do list that is now top of it.
I have spent the cash directly out of my pocket so not in any debt etc over the house. Dont need a mortgage or anything like that.
I just want it in my name and everything legal. I wont be doing it before xmas and plan to do as much research as possible before hand.
The house was empty for around 6 months since my parents died and i was renting and thought what the hell lets do it up and move in. (its in a nice area and has massive garden and a garage which were my main reasons)
Its now done. No turning back the clock. I always knew the legal side would be a pain but due to there not being a reason for needing the deeds to be changed i put it to the back of my mind. Theres no reason now and i could leave it as it is without any issues. I would tho prefer it all legal. Dont plan on moving/selling.
There is no pressure at all on anything relating to the house. Just something on the to do list that is now top of it.
I have spent the cash directly out of my pocket so not in any debt etc over the house. Dont need a mortgage or anything like that.
I just want it in my name and everything legal. I wont be doing it before xmas and plan to do as much research as possible before hand.
The house was empty for around 6 months since my parents died and i was renting and thought what the hell lets do it up and move in. (its in a nice area and has massive garden and a garage which were my main reasons)
Its now done. No turning back the clock. I always knew the legal side would be a pain but due to there not being a reason for needing the deeds to be changed i put it to the back of my mind. Theres no reason now and i could leave it as it is without any issues. I would tho prefer it all legal. Dont plan on moving/selling.
-- answer removed --
Speaking as someone who has inherited half a house and knowing that, even though a will clearly said the house was half mine, how much legal paperwork and enquiries have to be made before the house can be registered in a new name/s, I can assure you that you definitely need legal help. There are all sorts of documents you will need to produce including death certificates for your grandparents and your parents. You will need a solicitor. It may well be that you and your brother will ultimately be proved the legal owners of the house and if your brother wants to give his half to your their are further legal implications including tax issues for you and your brother.
If you do nothing then at some stage there will be great problems. You cannot legally sell the house for example.
If you do nothing then at some stage there will be great problems. You cannot legally sell the house for example.
Grandad had no other bro/sisters.
Gran had 1 son and 1 daughter. No other sisters or bros her side. Her son is my dad. Her daughter passed away years ago and was not married or had no children
Me and my bro are only living family left so there is no interest from elsewhere.
House is worth about 160k at the min. was worth just over 90k when i got it but since its been gutted and everything replaced back to the brick. Still more to do so will raise to around 185/190k based on current prices in the area road.
Yes it needs doing. Yes i know its important. I was just looking to see if i could do it myself and save a load of cash i would prefer to spend on my daughters or the missus.
Not sure i have got death certs of grandparents but go original deeds and my parents death certs. Think i need to have a chat will a solicitor and gauge a price point for this sort of thing.
Gran had 1 son and 1 daughter. No other sisters or bros her side. Her son is my dad. Her daughter passed away years ago and was not married or had no children
Me and my bro are only living family left so there is no interest from elsewhere.
House is worth about 160k at the min. was worth just over 90k when i got it but since its been gutted and everything replaced back to the brick. Still more to do so will raise to around 185/190k based on current prices in the area road.
Yes it needs doing. Yes i know its important. I was just looking to see if i could do it myself and save a load of cash i would prefer to spend on my daughters or the missus.
Not sure i have got death certs of grandparents but go original deeds and my parents death certs. Think i need to have a chat will a solicitor and gauge a price point for this sort of thing.
Think of a solicitor as money saved in the long run. It will cost you a lot more if you do nothing and the tax implications are really quite horrendous!! It might just cost you the house. Most solicitors will give you an hour's appointment for about £70.00 and that will give them time to talk you through what's involved. No good doing work on a house and doubling it's selling price if you legally can't sell it!!
As a lawyer myself, I cannot emphasise how much you need to go and see a solicitor who specialises in Wills and Probate.
Secondly, I would check the position at the land registry (you can do this online for a fiver). It sounds to me as if this is unregistered title so it won't be on the land registry website. If it is registered it makes it SO much easier.
You will need to get a copy of your grandparents' death certificates (both of them if grandad died first, or just your grandad if gran died first). you will also need to do a standing search at the Probate registry for a Grant of Probate (or Letters of Administration) to their estates. Assuming there was no Grant of Probate you will need to obtain one in the name of your grandad. You will also need your parents' death certificates and a copy of the Grant of Probate or Letters of Administration (if there is one) to their estates (you many only need one of them depending on who died first). If there have been no grants, you will need to obtain a Grant before you can transfer the house. Even if there was a Grant to your grandad's estate, you will still need another one - known as a Grant de bonis non (a grant of unadministered assets). That is as much as I can say in a nutshell. You really must seek legal advice.
There may also be taxation consequences.
Secondly, I would check the position at the land registry (you can do this online for a fiver). It sounds to me as if this is unregistered title so it won't be on the land registry website. If it is registered it makes it SO much easier.
You will need to get a copy of your grandparents' death certificates (both of them if grandad died first, or just your grandad if gran died first). you will also need to do a standing search at the Probate registry for a Grant of Probate (or Letters of Administration) to their estates. Assuming there was no Grant of Probate you will need to obtain one in the name of your grandad. You will also need your parents' death certificates and a copy of the Grant of Probate or Letters of Administration (if there is one) to their estates (you many only need one of them depending on who died first). If there have been no grants, you will need to obtain a Grant before you can transfer the house. Even if there was a Grant to your grandad's estate, you will still need another one - known as a Grant de bonis non (a grant of unadministered assets). That is as much as I can say in a nutshell. You really must seek legal advice.
There may also be taxation consequences.
I really hope everything works out for you as you have planned but as another lawyer I have to say the same and recommend getting proper legal advice.
Just registering an unregistered title is not necessarily straightforward (I know, I do them and have trained others to who have already had a fair amount of legal and property law training), let alone all the potential problems that you may face.
The fact that you mentioned ground rent and that it may be a lease also rang alarm bells with me (being for only a set period which could have even have expired or be close to it or even if it only has an enmortgageable or unsaleable term remaining or other issues esp with there being a traceable landlord) on top of the fact there doesn't seem to be much evidence of anything being distributed formally after so many deaths.
Just registering an unregistered title is not necessarily straightforward (I know, I do them and have trained others to who have already had a fair amount of legal and property law training), let alone all the potential problems that you may face.
The fact that you mentioned ground rent and that it may be a lease also rang alarm bells with me (being for only a set period which could have even have expired or be close to it or even if it only has an enmortgageable or unsaleable term remaining or other issues esp with there being a traceable landlord) on top of the fact there doesn't seem to be much evidence of anything being distributed formally after so many deaths.
About 20 people in 28 answers have had a go at this one. Everyone is telling you the same – go and see a solicitor. I’m not going to buck that trend, but my approach is going to be a bit different – I’m going to try and explain WHY you need to do that. I have to say that in my time on AnswerBank (about 4 years) this is the most complex legal inheritance / property situation that I’ve come across.
On death without a Will, the laws of intestacy apply to the estate (the chattels, money and property) that the deceased left behind. Usually one of the immediately family applies for a Grant of Representation which allows that person to deal with the deceased estate according to the law of intestacy. With no Will, an estate value to a certain defined figure goes to the spouse, the rest gets to any sons /daughters (that’s the gist – it is slightly more complicated). This certain figure NOW is £125k – I don’t know what lower figure it was 20 years ago. Fortunately it seems that the value of your granddad’s estate was less than the intestacy threshold (unless he left a lot of other money in bank accounts / investments) so it seems unlikely you will have a problem that some other relative other than your grandma (if your granddad died first) should have inherited the house. The same happened if your grandma died without making a Will. Provided your dad’s sister died before the last surviving granddad/grandma, it seems unlikely that any inheritance entitlement should have gone her way – the house should have been left to your dad. If your dad died before your mum without leaving a Will, the intestacy rules say your mum got the first £125k of your dad’s estate, then ditto when your mum died again without a Will, the house would be left equally to the children – you and your brother.
On death without a Will, the laws of intestacy apply to the estate (the chattels, money and property) that the deceased left behind. Usually one of the immediately family applies for a Grant of Representation which allows that person to deal with the deceased estate according to the law of intestacy. With no Will, an estate value to a certain defined figure goes to the spouse, the rest gets to any sons /daughters (that’s the gist – it is slightly more complicated). This certain figure NOW is £125k – I don’t know what lower figure it was 20 years ago. Fortunately it seems that the value of your granddad’s estate was less than the intestacy threshold (unless he left a lot of other money in bank accounts / investments) so it seems unlikely you will have a problem that some other relative other than your grandma (if your granddad died first) should have inherited the house. The same happened if your grandma died without making a Will. Provided your dad’s sister died before the last surviving granddad/grandma, it seems unlikely that any inheritance entitlement should have gone her way – the house should have been left to your dad. If your dad died before your mum without leaving a Will, the intestacy rules say your mum got the first £125k of your dad’s estate, then ditto when your mum died again without a Will, the house would be left equally to the children – you and your brother.
Now the trouble is that all this seems to have happened over 20 years with no Wills and no Grants of Representation being sought. This is why people are telling you despite you having the Deeds of the house with your granddad’s name on them, you just can’t register the house in your name – you need to prove to the probate office who deal with the administration of estates after a death that it is you and your brother who are entitled to have the property registered in your names.
Now go to Barmaid’s answer above – she refers to the need to undertake a ‘Standing Search’. This is because the probate office will want to be sure that no Grant of Representation WAS done on your Granddad’s estate but the house was wrongly excluded from being dealt with. (actually I thought a Standing Search only went back 12 months and you need to go back 20 – so I thought it was some other type of search but I bow to her greater legal knowledge).
Having found whether or not there was a GOR, you are going to have to apply for a Grant de bonis non. This, when granted, allows you as one of the sole survivors of your family to now deal with something that should have been dealt with 20 years ago. Having got that, you would then be in the position to administer the estate of your granddad, not before – and hence deal with the house. It is only at this point that the Land Registry will be willing to talk to you about land registration. Until then, you have no legal rights to do so. You are going to need the Death Certificates for the whole of the family line who have died since your granddad. However in the overall scale of things, this is likely to be the least of your problems.
Now go to Barmaid’s answer above – she refers to the need to undertake a ‘Standing Search’. This is because the probate office will want to be sure that no Grant of Representation WAS done on your Granddad’s estate but the house was wrongly excluded from being dealt with. (actually I thought a Standing Search only went back 12 months and you need to go back 20 – so I thought it was some other type of search but I bow to her greater legal knowledge).
Having found whether or not there was a GOR, you are going to have to apply for a Grant de bonis non. This, when granted, allows you as one of the sole survivors of your family to now deal with something that should have been dealt with 20 years ago. Having got that, you would then be in the position to administer the estate of your granddad, not before – and hence deal with the house. It is only at this point that the Land Registry will be willing to talk to you about land registration. Until then, you have no legal rights to do so. You are going to need the Death Certificates for the whole of the family line who have died since your granddad. However in the overall scale of things, this is likely to be the least of your problems.
Now, about that house.
As others have pointed out, under the intestacy rules (given the fortunate lack of other family members to complicate an already complex position) you and your brother would JOINTLY inherit the house. There are ways and means of him giving away his half of the house to you - but it has to be done properly and it has to be done in that way – not by him just not claiming his half in the first place.
You have the Deeds, and these would be sent to the land Registry together with an application form to register the title – which isn’t much money. They will look over the document and come back to you if there are any question marks over the validity of the Title. By that, I mean that there could be complications over access rights, covenants written into the Deeds. Of course, it might be straightforward but you see that there are a number of doubters above. The Land Registry are quite approachable people and seem keen to make the LR available to members of the public – so if you ever got this far you might be able to solve the problems. Equally they are not going to tell you how to solve a technical legal issue.
Finally let me say that it somewhat disingenuous of people above to suggest you might lose the house if you don’t approach a solicitor. That is not going to happen. On the other hand, this ‘problem’ that goes back 20 years for your family is going to have to be solved sometime or later.
Good luck.
As others have pointed out, under the intestacy rules (given the fortunate lack of other family members to complicate an already complex position) you and your brother would JOINTLY inherit the house. There are ways and means of him giving away his half of the house to you - but it has to be done properly and it has to be done in that way – not by him just not claiming his half in the first place.
You have the Deeds, and these would be sent to the land Registry together with an application form to register the title – which isn’t much money. They will look over the document and come back to you if there are any question marks over the validity of the Title. By that, I mean that there could be complications over access rights, covenants written into the Deeds. Of course, it might be straightforward but you see that there are a number of doubters above. The Land Registry are quite approachable people and seem keen to make the LR available to members of the public – so if you ever got this far you might be able to solve the problems. Equally they are not going to tell you how to solve a technical legal issue.
Finally let me say that it somewhat disingenuous of people above to suggest you might lose the house if you don’t approach a solicitor. That is not going to happen. On the other hand, this ‘problem’ that goes back 20 years for your family is going to have to be solved sometime or later.
Good luck.
Hi Builders Mate.
Just one thing I would add. It is difficult to give half a house to someone without quite significant tax implications on behalf of the donor. I know because of a recent situation that I have been in. It's a good idea to seek an accountant's advice as well as a solicitor if givman's brother really wants to relinquish his half of the house.
Just one thing I would add. It is difficult to give half a house to someone without quite significant tax implications on behalf of the donor. I know because of a recent situation that I have been in. It's a good idea to seek an accountant's advice as well as a solicitor if givman's brother really wants to relinquish his half of the house.
The inheritance tax threshold applies to an estate (currently) worth more than £325k. 20 years ago the threshold was £118k. Unless Givman's parents or grandparents had significant other assets in addition to this house, inheritance tax is not going to be an issue. Part of acquiring a Grant of Probate involves submission to HMRC what the values of the estate are - the HMRC then calculates whether inheritance tax is due and makes sure it gets its pound of flesh before any Grant is made. They do this by clearing the file with the Probate Office only once any tax is paid. That way they avoid the descendants getting their hands on the value of the estate without paying the tax.
It doesn't sound like this is going to be an issue for Givman.
It doesn't sound like this is going to be an issue for Givman.
I misread your comment.
Any one can give their assets away. They merely have to survive 7 years after the gift, otherwise it is not an exempt transfer.
If Givman's brother is generous enough to give his half of the house to Givman, it would become an inheritance tax issue for the executors of Givman's brother estate only if Givman's brother did not live for another 7 years AND the value of his worldly wealth was more than £325k (current values). It would make sense for Givman's brother to make a Will leaving his estate to Givman. We already know that there is no other family.
Any one can give their assets away. They merely have to survive 7 years after the gift, otherwise it is not an exempt transfer.
If Givman's brother is generous enough to give his half of the house to Givman, it would become an inheritance tax issue for the executors of Givman's brother estate only if Givman's brother did not live for another 7 years AND the value of his worldly wealth was more than £325k (current values). It would make sense for Givman's brother to make a Will leaving his estate to Givman. We already know that there is no other family.
Then I really don't know what your accountant is referring to.
This article from The Times is about inheritance tax, I admit. Bang slap in the middle it talks about giving away assets during one's lifetime as a means of reducing or avoiding IHT - it would have had to point out other pitfalls (other than IHT).
http://www.timesonlin...es/article3971312.ece
The only other clear issue that I know of is the business about giving assets away to avoid the cost of Care Homes in old age (and hoping the local authority will fund it). But that's not what this situation is all about.
This article from The Times is about inheritance tax, I admit. Bang slap in the middle it talks about giving away assets during one's lifetime as a means of reducing or avoiding IHT - it would have had to point out other pitfalls (other than IHT).
http://www.timesonlin...es/article3971312.ece
The only other clear issue that I know of is the business about giving assets away to avoid the cost of Care Homes in old age (and hoping the local authority will fund it). But that's not what this situation is all about.
All to do with gifting and the amounts you can gift in any one year. Inheritance tax is not the issue at all. There is none involved. I cannot sell my half of the property either for less than it's market value without tax implications. The shortfall on the price would be considered a 'gift' Two separate people have confirmed this to me. It may be to do with the fact that I do not live in the house but my relation does. I'll have to look out the letter from my accountant which confirmed what was said in the meeting. I know it was nothing to do with capital gains tax either.
One can gift £3000 in total to others in each and every year (without it counting as a potentially exempt transfer - for which one has to live for 7 years after the gift, to avoid potential IHT implications).
Sorry I just don't get the issue your accountant is referring to.
Anyway it's a bit off-topic. And Givman seems to have vanished anyway.
Sorry I just don't get the issue your accountant is referring to.
Anyway it's a bit off-topic. And Givman seems to have vanished anyway.
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