Diane Abbott, Time To Forgive And...
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section 5 (1) and (6) of the public order act
my 21 year old son has been charged with the above after a night out with friends -he was hit by another lad who has also been charged but i am not sure what with - my son is adamant that he does not know why he has been charged with this altough he says he did try to resist arrest ( ended up with cuts to his neck and back ) kept in a cell for 21 hours what is his best way forward he has never been in trouble before holds down a good job - but i have concerns as to crb checks his firm has just got a contract in a prison will this stop him working there if found guilty - should he just pelad guilty what sort of money will be looking at for a sols Help !!!
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Hi Deb:
Firstly, I can understand your concern and, though it's easy for me to say, try not to get yourself too worked up.
Your son has been charged with what can be described as the least serious of the public order offences under the POA 1986.
He cannot be sent to jail, if convicted, these 2 sections would bring fines at most.
Section 5 basically refers to disorderly behaviour in a public place, i.e. shouting, swearing etc.
Section 6 is added on if alcohol has played a part and, given that you've said he was held in the cells for 21 hours, I'd have an educated guess that he WAS well drunk. I speak from experience (NOT of being drunk).
Was he interviewed when he sobered up? If so, he should have had a solicitor present. In which case, contact the solicitor regarding fees etc (The Police Station solicitor would have been free, if he was interviewed.)
If not interviewed, I'd advise him to contact his local Citizens Advice Bureau or the Law Society re fees.
If convicted, it would mean that, yes, he would have a "record" albeit for a very minor offence. It would be best for him in the long run to declare it to his firm IF he is required to do so.
If he pleads guilty at Court (It's undoubtedly Magistrates Court he has to attend, yes?), then it should be dealt with there. I believe it would also be Mag Court if he pleads not guilty too.
Hope this is of help. Feel free to ask again if you wish.
Good luck.
Firstly, I can understand your concern and, though it's easy for me to say, try not to get yourself too worked up.
Your son has been charged with what can be described as the least serious of the public order offences under the POA 1986.
He cannot be sent to jail, if convicted, these 2 sections would bring fines at most.
Section 5 basically refers to disorderly behaviour in a public place, i.e. shouting, swearing etc.
Section 6 is added on if alcohol has played a part and, given that you've said he was held in the cells for 21 hours, I'd have an educated guess that he WAS well drunk. I speak from experience (NOT of being drunk).
Was he interviewed when he sobered up? If so, he should have had a solicitor present. In which case, contact the solicitor regarding fees etc (The Police Station solicitor would have been free, if he was interviewed.)
If not interviewed, I'd advise him to contact his local Citizens Advice Bureau or the Law Society re fees.
If convicted, it would mean that, yes, he would have a "record" albeit for a very minor offence. It would be best for him in the long run to declare it to his firm IF he is required to do so.
If he pleads guilty at Court (It's undoubtedly Magistrates Court he has to attend, yes?), then it should be dealt with there. I believe it would also be Mag Court if he pleads not guilty too.
Hope this is of help. Feel free to ask again if you wish.
Good luck.
Section 5 of the Public Order Act is the least serious of the 5 sections (well in fact, six, if you include section 4A as a separate section) of the act.
The maximum penalty is a fine of �1,000 (�2,500 if the offence is racially aggravated). It is a summary offence � that is it can only be dealt with at the magistrates� court. Whether the defendant pleads guilty or not guilty does not alter this. (Even for offences which can be heard at the Crown Court, the defendant�s plea does not have a bearing on where the matter is heard).
The �starting point� when considering sentencing is half a week�s net income for a minor disturbance (reduced by a third if an early guilty plea is entered).
Section 6 of the Act does not cover any specific offence, but is used to qualify the other offences in terms of intent or impairment.
The maximum penalty is a fine of �1,000 (�2,500 if the offence is racially aggravated). It is a summary offence � that is it can only be dealt with at the magistrates� court. Whether the defendant pleads guilty or not guilty does not alter this. (Even for offences which can be heard at the Crown Court, the defendant�s plea does not have a bearing on where the matter is heard).
The �starting point� when considering sentencing is half a week�s net income for a minor disturbance (reduced by a third if an early guilty plea is entered).
Section 6 of the Act does not cover any specific offence, but is used to qualify the other offences in terms of intent or impairment.
he is an electrician - my son has now realised that this could have serious impact on his life and is worried as he does not feel he is in the wrong - he admits that he did shout but because he had been hit how does this affect the issue and does he have a leg to stand on he is very down at the thought of being guilty until proven innocent !!
Hi again Deb:
I've put one post on already and have given you/your son certain advice. Don't know if he's acted on any of it? You haven't said.
Does he have any witnesses? Have any of his friends made written statements to the Police? The system can only operate with the information it's got.
He's not "guilty until proven innocent" because so far he has not been convicted of any offence. That is for the Court to decide, not the Police / CPS. It's merely their combined job to gather evidence and present it to the Court.
Even IF he's convicted, it's something he would need then to put down to experience. Sometimes it's a case of "sucking it up". After all, we're talking here about a minor Public Order Offence, not murder.
I've put one post on already and have given you/your son certain advice. Don't know if he's acted on any of it? You haven't said.
Does he have any witnesses? Have any of his friends made written statements to the Police? The system can only operate with the information it's got.
He's not "guilty until proven innocent" because so far he has not been convicted of any offence. That is for the Court to decide, not the Police / CPS. It's merely their combined job to gather evidence and present it to the Court.
Even IF he's convicted, it's something he would need then to put down to experience. Sometimes it's a case of "sucking it up". After all, we're talking here about a minor Public Order Offence, not murder.
It may not be murder but interestingly someone has just posted something stating that in some job applications you are asked a question like "have you ever had your fingerprints and DNA taken by police?"
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Law/Question732 538.html
It appears an arrest in itself can have implications
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Law/Question732 538.html
It appears an arrest in itself can have implications
it may seem like a minor offence but to be charged with something you do not feel you have done is awful - he will not to be entitled to legal aid he earns to much money - but as with most 21 year olds he does not have any savings and would find it hard to inccur solicitors costs in this present creit crunch we as his parents also dont have hundreds of pounds to pay solicitors ( we keep to young adults as it is ) the serious side is he will have a record for 6 years and it will affect his life alot as he wants to travel etc i am not saying he is all innocent and as i was not there i do not know the whole situation but i do know had a hysterical phone call from him whilst at the police station and was informed by the police officer that he had been hit and sustained cuts and bruises - later to discover he had received these whilst resisting arrest !!!
Hi again Deb:
You, as his mum, are bound to be very emotionally involved. It's natural. And you may think that it's easy for someone like me to say things you may not particularly like to hear.
However, I'm only trying to give you a bit of advice from lots of experience I've had in these matters. It's up to you/your son what you make of it. Please feel free to ignore it if you wish.
I've tried to find out a little bit more information but for whatever reason, you've not given it. Fine, up to you.
Put it this way: unfortunately, none of us can turn back the clock: correct?.
None of us can undo what happened: correct?
Although you, as a parent, are very concerned that your son may end up with a criminal record, it still isn't the end of the world: correct?
He should have learned a big lesson from this experience: correct?
His life will still carry on: correct?
You will still love him to bits: correct?
There are thousands of employed people in Britain with criminal records ranging from murder to very minor offences like Sections 5 and 6 Public Order: correct?
This time next year you'll have forgotten all about this: correct?
Good luck!
You, as his mum, are bound to be very emotionally involved. It's natural. And you may think that it's easy for someone like me to say things you may not particularly like to hear.
However, I'm only trying to give you a bit of advice from lots of experience I've had in these matters. It's up to you/your son what you make of it. Please feel free to ignore it if you wish.
I've tried to find out a little bit more information but for whatever reason, you've not given it. Fine, up to you.
Put it this way: unfortunately, none of us can turn back the clock: correct?.
None of us can undo what happened: correct?
Although you, as a parent, are very concerned that your son may end up with a criminal record, it still isn't the end of the world: correct?
He should have learned a big lesson from this experience: correct?
His life will still carry on: correct?
You will still love him to bits: correct?
There are thousands of employed people in Britain with criminal records ranging from murder to very minor offences like Sections 5 and 6 Public Order: correct?
This time next year you'll have forgotten all about this: correct?
Good luck!
thank you if i knew then what i know now eh!!! yes i accept that maybe he just has to go and plead guilty and realise next time he runs like mad !!! to keep out of it as such
we are just concerned how much it would affect his life crb checks are very good but sometimes they need to look deeper than a piece of paper - there are pleaty of people out there who never get 'caught' for far more serious things - believe it or not my son wanted to be a policeman when he left school and even completed a public sevices course before deciding he was to young to join and needed some life experience well his certainly getting that !!
we are just concerned how much it would affect his life crb checks are very good but sometimes they need to look deeper than a piece of paper - there are pleaty of people out there who never get 'caught' for far more serious things - believe it or not my son wanted to be a policeman when he left school and even completed a public sevices course before deciding he was to young to join and needed some life experience well his certainly getting that !!
oh the info is as follows he was interviewed at 9am in the morning and was not released until 11pm at night he did not have a solicior present as he felt he had not done anything wrong so therefore did not need one - sorry wasnt not givin the info just needed to be clear with him what had happened he was arrested at 1.30 am in the morning
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