Community Resolution Order

[bednobs]

Hi, my neighbours came round because they claim my dog got into their garden, jumped up and bit her arm. My dog has undoubtedly been in their garden before, over the summer (at least twice) they informed us and we improved their fence so our dog could no longer get through.
They claim this incident was last week.
I asked them (by text) to tell me where he got through as we can honestly see no gap big enough for even a yorkie to get through, let alone a border collie. I also asked for a bit more info about the incident as i need to make some hard decisions (if for example out dog shoved his way through and attacked her, it's rather different to him putting his face through, her shoving him back and then his tooth grazing her)
They have not come back to me on either count.
This morning a police officer turned up and tried to "persuade" me to sign a community resolution order whereby i agree to improve (their!) fence and pay them an as yet undisclosed in amount recompense. He was a bit wishy washy about what would happen if i refused to sign, but said i could be guilty of an offence under the dangerous dogs act.
I do not believe that IF something happened it happened as reported (i can't say for certain it didn't happen - he was in the garden and i can't see the whole of it from where i am working) and i don't want to sign. I am willing to be proved wrong
I find it extremely hard to believe. We are already not on good terms with these neighbours and i think they are just being trouble makers. However, my job requires me to have DV clearance and i don't want to jeapordise that.
someone give me some advice please!

[bednobs]

Thanks for all your advice. Sometimes when you are so angry it's hard to see what it right and wrong or which way to go. The policeman left me the piece if paper to "think about" overnight and will contact me tomorrow

[woofgang]

bedknobs don't do it. You will be effectively labelling your dog as dangerous which is a really dodgy thing to do. Stay cool and calm on the moral high ground, get the fence fixed so tightly that a mouse couldn't get out. The other thing that may be tried is to remove your dog by the police and don't let them. Stay firm on needing proof.
If it gets nasty these are the people to contact but they are not cheap

http://www.wheldonlaw.co.uk/

also facebook page https://www.facebook.com/DDAWatch

[New Judge]

What's on the piece of paper, bednobs?

[bednobs]

from the top:
name
address DOB
Niche number &offence 43210050407 sectio of the dangerous dogs act 1991
then a table with all these questions anwered yes
suitable offence, offender admits responsibility, victims view taken into account, offenders profile is suitabe, community impact/public interest
you are suspected of that (sic) your dog has on a number of occasions, has got (sic)into the next door nighbours garden and on XXXXX your neighbour XXX has been bitten was trying (sic) to get your dog back to you. blah blah at this stage it is proposed that the matter be dealt with informally and i will provide you an opportunity to make recompense for your actions. This is voluntary and if you agree to complete the process you will not normally be subject to any further police investigation failure to complete the agreed actions may result int he matter being formally investigated and you being liable to prosecution

...
proposed outcomws 1)make appropriate fencing/guards to ensure your dog cannot get into the neighbours garden
2 make recompense to your neighbour for the injuries cause
Then a load of waffle about youth offenders, niche and so on

[bednobs]

spelling mistakes mine!

[THECORBYLOON]

You're being asked to agree to pay an unknown amount to repair an unknown defect in the fence and pay an unknown amount of compensation for an alleged injury.

If that were me, I'd refuse until presented with the evidence.

[pixie374]

Get them to prove it, bednobs, before you take any responsibility.

[bednobs]

i dont really see how they can prove it. I am not one of thse who says "oh he's harmless" as i believe any dog can bite, and i could imagine a scenario where he could have bitten her i suppose (heck, i'd like to bit her myself sometimes) but i just cant get my head round it

[pixie374]

This isn't a legal answer, but honest. I would say- i don't believe my dog did that- show me. If they can't prove it, surely, that's it?

[pixie374]

I would also agree to take responsibility, if they did prove it...

[woofgang]

APG "People don't ring the Police for nothing." My nasty neighbours did and also made three complaints to the council about my dogs. All unsubstantiated and it came to nothing but it was a very unpleasant 18 months. Foertunately they have moved away now.

[New Judge]

There is no prospect of the police providing proof. The very essence of the CR procedure is that the matter is disposed of by the "offender" unconditionally accepting responsibility for the actions alleged. It's rather like accepting a fixed penalty offer for speeding - the police provide no evidence and you accept the allegation as it stands to avoid prosecution.

My view, bednobs, is that if you don't agree with the allegations you should not agree to the CR. I've explained what the police will have to prove to succeed in prosecuting you. Although the officer is making light of it, this is not something you should agree to until you are sure you are responsible for the allegations. This is especially so if there is "bad blood" between you and your neighbour as it can open a can of worms. You may like to consult a solicitor - many will give you a free initial consultation and opinion.

[Canary42]

///"People don't ring the Police for nothing."///

Oh yes they do.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-50944961

[Zacs-Master]

“ Does it involve guilt?

Yes – you have to make a clear and reliable admission.”

https://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/community-resolution-order/

[Zacs-Master]

“ https://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/community-resolution-order/”

[New Judge]

Already done that one, Zacs, at 16:52.

I bet you were busy waiting for the Flying Scotsman to pass through your local station :-) :-)

[Chinajan]

This part of the report is puzzling me:

// your neighbour XXX has been bitten was trying (sic) to get your dog back to you... //

It seems from what you said that the neighbour didn't inform you until they came round about a week later. So what actually happened on that day? Did they dump the dog back over the fence and scoot off to A&E? Did you not miss the dog? Does it normally run loose in the fenced area?

Because of your employment requirements I'd be very wary of signing this order. For the sake of argument let's assume the neighbour took a dated photo of their injury and/or has a medical record showing they sought treatment. [Why did they not come round as soon as they could after the incident?]

If proof that satisfies you can be provided, then at that point you can offer to erect your own fence and make an offer of suitable compensation without any need to sign an order.

[bednobs]

She waited till her husband came home and then sent him round to tell my husband. Despite the fact neither of them were in during the day. It was in the evening of the alleged incident. Yes, the dog is loose in the garden normally when I let him out. He was out for about half an hour and I was occasionally looking up from my desk to see he was ok. I got him in because he was digging at the bottom of one of my newly planted trees. There is around a 3 inch gap at one point under the fence. I can see he may have put his muzzle through but I cannot see that he could get in their garden. I can imagine a scenario where he put his nose thru and she shoved it but not that he got thru and jumped at her. I simply don't know what if anything happened. When the husband came round much later he said if it happened again he'd call the police. It hasn't happened again but they called them anyway apparently.

[bednobs]

I half thought the policeman might because mate if theirs because he seemed quite unprofessional but I called the switchboard to verify his details

[Chinajan]

So then ask for evidence of injury/treatment and if you are persuaded then at that point you can consider what you might do to compensate. Still no need to sign this order.