What Is The Sentence For A Public Order Offence Section 4?

[chumley1990]

I was involved in an attack where me n my mate attacked a male unprovoked whilst under the influence of alcohol. I punched the male to the ground then I continued to kick the male once he was on the floor. My mate also kicked him on the floor. We was then pulled away from the male by other friends but I choose to go back but the male had already ran away. It was all recorded on cctv. It is my first offence as an adult. I had a caution for abh when i was a child 14 years old. What will be the maximum sentence?

[EDDIE51]

From your description of the offence you are very probably going to be charged with GBH section 18 .
Public order S4 is the offence of using offensive language with threats of violence, you have gone far beyond that.
If you are charged with a S18 then you are looking at a compulsory prison sentence. For S18 the maximum sentence is life in prisonment. S18 is a VERY serious offence , just 1 step down from attempted murder.
If you have already been charged with Public order S4 it is likedly the charge will be increased to GBH S18 once the evidence has been collected.

[Orderlimit]

Section 4 Public Order Act
Sub Sec (4) (4)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or both.

[Orderlimit]

From The Law Pages site : In the Magistrates' Courts offences that attract fines are subject to maximums from level 1 to level 5".
Level 1: £200
Level 2: £500
Level 3: £1,000
Level 4: £2,500
Level 5: £5,000


I assume you have been charged with the public order offence due to no complaint from the victim or victim identified by the police / prosecution.

[jd_1984]

Agreed. Your description of events (and cctv evidence to support) details a much more serious crime than a Section 4. Public order offences are more to do with anti-social, threatening or abusive behaviour that doesnt neccessarily lead to violence.
You have depicted an unprovoked attack, striking a man to the floor and then continuing to attack him whilst he is on the floor. Regardless of your intention to go back and check up on the individual(unless you went back to the scene to continue the attack, I am assuming and hoping not) this is a crime that carries a serious prison sentence if you are found guilty of GBH.

[sandyRoe]

The fact that you went back speaks well for you. Were you motivated by contrition or a concern for the welfare of the man you'd just assaulted?

[Orderlimit]

Quick note: I agree that the description of events amounts to more than a Sec 4 Public Order Offence but for the charge to be up graded to GBH, a complainant would first need to be identified and show he had sustained very serious injuries as a result of the incident

Without a victim, I would suggest the events described amount more to a Sec 3 Public Order Offence (Affray), but this is an either-way offence whereas Sec 4 is summary only and requires less work for the Police / prosecution and less expense.

[New Judge]

Quite agree with all of the above, except that charging decisions (as outlined by Orderlimit) are not usually influenced by the fact that the more serious charge is "Either Way". There is no immediate added expense for the CPS between the two types of offence. Extra cost only comes into play if the matter goes to the Crown Court. This is particularly so when (as seems probable in this case) the CPS would recommend to Magistrates that the case be retained in the lower court. Of course there is always the possibility that Magistrates would disagree and send the matter to the Crown Court (either for sentencing or trial) and there is also the possibility that the defendant will elect trial by jury (which is his right if he pleads not guilty). However, it is unusual for a Bench to disagree with the prosecution when making such a decision and also unusual for a defendant to opt for a Crown Court trial when offered a hearing the the Magistrates' Court.

The matter as described certainly seems far more serious than a S4 Public Order offence and I would be surpised if it remains that way.

[Orderlimit]

New Judge, ref the early charging decisions, it is a common practice for the police officer presenting the pre-charge case and the CPS 'Gatekeeper' to opt for the summary only offence in such situations as described here. The main factor in my opinion would be the requirement for the officer to only produce an expedited prosecution file for summary only offences, verses a full file required for the crown court, saving many hours of extra work for both the officer and later the CPS prosecutor. (unfortunately this a reality !).

I fully agree with your comment "and also unusual for a defendant to opt for a Crown Court trial when offered a hearing the the Magistrates' Court", which is a consideration and usually leads to an early guilty plea, however, it is also more likely a solicitor be contacted on the more serious either way offences and well known that they persuade clients to opt for trial at crown (for the solicitors & legal reps benefit).

[chumley1990]

Yes i have been charged with section 4 and now have a court date. I was arrested for affray at first but then it was lowered to a section 4 as the victim hasnt come forward and they found no dna trace on my clothes. I havent seen a solicitor either. Do you think it would be wise to see one before the court date or just go without seeing one. By the way i am in full time employment and im not your average joe drug user :)

[chumley1990]

Also to let you know i went back because i felt sorry for the bloke and i wanted to make sure he was ok. I know alot of people wont believe that, but its true. It really isnt like me to attack some. It was all alcohol fuelled. N the abh charge was a school yard fight were the teachers wanted it to go further.

[chumley1990]

He is still on the original bail because he is in the army and was away on exercise and couldnt make it back for the 18th when out bail was up.

[EDDIE51]

So if the 'victim' has not been identified or interviewed by the police how did you come to be arrested? Is it just the CCTV footage ?
As I said at first, public order S4 is using offensive language plus threats of violence. I can not see how you can be succesfully charged with that without evidence as to what you said, the CCTV camera will not prove what was said.
As things stand I think you will get away with this due to lack of evidence . I DO NOT approve of what you did , but from a legal standpoint I do not think there is enough evidence to support a conviction.

[chumley1990]

We got arrested because we was seen on cctv footage and i guess the cctv operator called the police. I also do not agree what i have done. It was a drunken mistake and it never happens. I am now staying sober. :) i really int one of the local yobs who start fights for a living.

[EDDIE51]

If you don't get charged or the case is dropped then at least learn from your mistake. We see many similar cases on here where the attacker ends up doing a year or so 'inside' just for a one off drunken fight.

[jd_1984]

A "one off" drunken fight can change your life forever. First you risk imprisonment and then afterwards the criminal record that will follow you to every job interview when you are released. I agree, take this as a learning experience. Its good that nobody was seriously hurt and it MAY prove lucky for you that there is little supporting evidence (although I am still slightly confused about the charge, how it has come about and the manner in which it is being taken forward).
It is worrying that this was totally unprovoked, not that I condone even provoked violence if the situation could be resolved another way. You see drunk young lads having punch ups because another male has insulted him or made a pass at his girlfriend etc and this is still wrong but in your case you just floored another male for no other reason than you were intoxicated.
You may have unresolved anger issues you need to address and maybe lay off the booze if this is how you are capable of behaving.
Good luck.

[chumley1990]

I havent got unresolved anger problems. I usually behave myself on a night out. Also i havent had a drink since the arrest and i am planning on not drinking for good. I have promised my partner that.

I also am confused how i can get arrested for affray then get charged for a section 4. Is it common that people actually get sent down for this?