Is there a god?

[LeedsRhinos]

Is there a god? I mean look at all the different relgions around the world who all believe that THEY are right & the others are wrong. They can't all be right can they. Which is why in my opion it all rubbish.

[I.R.]

Well, I don't believe in the concept of eternal punishment in hell. And, believe me, it annoys me when people use that as a scare-factor to force people to worship God. I, on the other hand, believe that death is the price of sin. And also that God-worship should stem from the love of our creator, not fear of punishment. **I can imagine Azimov thinking up some choice-words to describe this aspect of my faith! What are you going to call me this time? Crazy? Stupid? Ignorant? Lowly-minded? Uneducated? Gosh, I cant wait to hear it!!

[el duerino]

fair enough - however if there is no punishment why should we follow the christian code of ethics? I have commented before IR that what you believe is not really Christianity, more of a hash of your own confused beliefs. What was the point of jesus if he doesnt grant everlasting life through belief? if our soul dies with mortal death, exactly what spark of the divine do we possess?

[I.R.]

Death is the punishment, el D. That's my belief. And everlasting life on this earth for those that live according to God's will. And what's so wrong with following the christian code of ethics? Which part of it do you find offensive? Is it love for your neighbour, forgiveness, morality?

[Azimov]

You absolutely should call me stupid, arrogant, ignorant and misguided if that is what you think I.R! I'll even put my hand up to one of those! I agree that I am somewhat arrogant and I confess that is a rather unattractive character trait but alas it is a cross I must bear. However, I don't think I can be described as stupid, even by your standards, as I'm sure there are those here who would differ with your opinion based solely on my posts. I daresay there are an equal number who would agree with you so I guess that your opinion is at best "debatable". I understand your opinion that I am ignorant and misguided because that is what your faith tells you to think! If I don't agree with you then I must be either ignorant or misguided or both! As for the anger/hate factor, I don't hate you, far from it, I respect your resolve but I do not respect your opinions and by extension, you! I confess to a marked distain for you and your ilk, but the anger? Well, that comes from the fact that religion and it's advocates (yes that means you!) have always had, and still have, the loudest voices and the greatest say in how this world is run. That in itself is enough to make my blood boil, but when you consider that much of man's progress in the last few hundred years has been in spite of religion it really hits home just how dangerous your beliefs are. "Live and let live"? Not until you and your kind do I.R! As long as you continue to believe that you have the monopoly on morality while waging war on other peoples or countries in the firm belief that you have God on your side, the side of morality, reason and righteousness, I'll be angry When your President, Prime Minister or Sovreign no longer has to swear an oath to God or even demonstrate their faith before he or she can take office, then my anger will subside. Until that day dawns, you bet I'll be angry!

[the357bullet]

its easier for most americans to believe in god, because they have it so good. would you feel the same if you was in ethiopia, sitting in dirt, to weak to wipe away the flies because it hasn't rained in 120 days. or one of the ten thousand dying everyday in africa because of politics. you believe in god because the church helped in the mourning process of dying loved ones that they were going to a better place. answer me truthfully, if you were told you had cancer and medicines and chemotherapy was your only chance of survival would you take it or rely on prayer to god that this is your wish for me and i accept it and that you have a better place for me upon my death.

[Azimov]

If truth were dependent on desperation then I would be forced to agree with you Bullet! You inadvertently demonstrate my point quite nicely though. That is to say, religious belief has little to do with fact or evidence, and all to do with desire! No matter how desperate the questioner, the truth will always be the truth. eg if there IS no water, then no matter how desperate I am to believe that it exists, that in itself won't make it so! If you fear death then religion may alleviate the fear but it won't supply everlasting life, just the calm that comes with the belief! There is much to be said for the placebo effect! Your post might go some way to explaining why many believe (and perhaps that was your intention) but it doesn't answer the question "Is there a god?". It was a good post though!

[I.R.]

the357bullet, I believe in God, but I'm not american. In fact, i'm African and I live in Africa. And atheism isn't very common over here, despite the suffering you describe. So you see, belief in God isn't a conditional thing for those that truly believe.

[verbiphobe]

Poor Azimov, he knows theres no God, yet he just can't persuade those braindead religifreaks and agnostics. Have you considered psychiatrisc treatment for your obsession Azimov? There is help available you know.

[the357bullet]

ir this is in no way an insult, i hope your country can stop all the needless killing. but having the hardships and conditions you have endured you probably havn't had a lot to believe in, if believing with faith that you will go to a better place after you die that is your right and probably does help in your hardships. my point was if there was a god why should some people be born to better conditions, should you or other people from ravaged countries be loved any less. some americans pray to pay the bills and other people pray just to live another day--where is gods justice.

[Azimov]

Yes Verbiphobe, on your recommendation I have considered "psychiatrisc" treatment, but I have so far been unable to locate a dyslexic Doctor lol Seriously though, I confess, it is frustrating to have my opinions fall on deaf ears but then again, that's nothing new to me. My frustration stems from the fact that unlike those religious groups we are always hearing about, those who share my beliefs and opinions are rarely allowed the freedom to voice their opinions and almost never given a fair and balanced forum in which to do so! So much for free speech! I will say this though... This website and it's operators have had many, many opportunities to censor or remove this topic (my posts in particular, which have on occasion been somewhat confrontational) and yet it remains! I thank them for their open mindedness and patience. Unfortunately, while I have had the freedom to make as many points supporting my position as I like, when I come to read your replies I am disappointed to find that all you can come up with is personal slurs and religious dogma! When is someone going to offer a decent argument in favour of a God or creation?

[I.R.]

the357bullet, the disparity you mention is not just between rich and poor countries; even in my country we have people who are Sooooooo rich, they could afford almost anything, while some are veeeery poor! And I'm sure even America and the UK have their own share of both extremes. This does not invalidate God's existence. If you read the Bible's account of creation, and the first humans, you'll understand why things got so bad for the human race, and why God allows certain things to happen.

[I.R.]

Dear Azimov, what other arguments, or points, do you need? You said it yourself that even if God were to stand before you and proclaim himself, you still wouldn't believe! "I cannot, for the life of me, describe a situation in which I'd be convinced that there is (or was ever) a god!"- your words, right? I rest my case!!

[tramcar]

I have read 127 posts on this topic, and offer my conclusions: Athiests tend to arrogance, because they are overwhelmed by the superstition of their opponents. Christians are mostly illiterate, and lack any ability to think rationally. God created the universe. SuperGod created God, and so on ad infinitum. When you die, you're dead. No problem - it's like going to sleep, except you don't wake up in the morning. Big deal! - do you think the universe will suffer on account of your absence?

[el duerino]

I suppose you could call me arrogant when dealing with people who believe in a 2000 year old superstition. Get some cahoonas and deal with life, don't hide behind false hopes.

[vikramdave1]

Forget religions they are like political parties. Resort to philosophy, if were precisely sure that there is a God it would make life so much easier thats partly the case for religions creating a idea of a God . However we as humanity just do not know.If we did know that would be venturing into the mind of God or a creator which frankly we cannot do. Death is mearly a way in which a person can discover that answer for himself.

[bellababy]

Peter the apostle was told from Jesus that Peter was his rock and for him to begin the church. A Catholic church, that is the first Church and that is proven. All of the other religions branched off. I believe that if you are not Catholic it is not wrong, people are brought up differently and thats o.k. I feel very sorry for those that do not have God in their life and I will pray for you. I saw a religious video about a woman that was pronounced dead and came back to life. She experienced heaven and hell also pergatory. It was real. For those that don't believe, try. What are you going to loose? Did any of you see the Passion of the Christ? You think Jesus did that cause he liked pain, come on. God Bless

[el duerino]

I do not pray for people, but I sincerely hope you see the error of your ways. You saw a video and a film, and this is your argument? I feel sorry for those who have god in their lives.

[LeedsRhinos]

When I originaly posted this question I didn't expect the given response. What a fantastic debate we have had here. The conclusion is the believers will never sway the non-believers & vice verca. I do however find the believers reasons for existance rather flawed.

[the357bullet]

if there was a supreme being, Why would he need a son? How would he have a son? Believers have faith that the bible is proof of God and Jesus Christ, I say it llessons that possibility. A book written by man. a man (jesus)believed to be the son of God, is crucified since he is now dead, they have to come up with a reason, hence he died for us. Why? why not have Jesus preach for a hundred years, do miracles, convert everyone posssible, then write in the bible Jesus spent his whole life preaching the word. If jesus is the son of god how would his death make beleivers out of anybody, any human can be killed.