Can Fundamentalist Islam Survive In The Modern World?

[naomi24]

This question arises from last night’s excellent television documentary ‘Shot for going to School’ concerning the plight of Malala Yousafzai, shot by the Taliban for wanting an education. As well as offering a superb insight into the inflexible mentality of the fundamentalist, it highlighted the determined ambition of many girls like Malala who do want an education, and despite the fear and apprehension that such aspiration engenders within that society, are supported by parents and many other adults alike. I’ve long been of the opinion that with the advent of increasingly easily available world-wide communication a chasm is opening up between those Muslims who are determined to cling to the old ways and those who are no longer content to blindly accept the unjust and misogynous philosophy of their forefathers – but which faction will eventually succeed? The traditionalists – or those who favour progress?

[tonyav]

naomi, I think it will lead to infighting.

[LazyGun]

I think - hope- that the progressives will win. I actually think it is pretty inevitable, its merely a question of time. And that knowledge, that recognition by the traditionalists that their worldview is doomed to failure contributes at least in part to the zeal with which they preach and the ferocity in which they engage when tackling people and cultures who they see as undermining their faith based certitude.

Its a matter of time and cross-cultural influence and education and new generations. Its just a pity that the body count will continue to mount in the interim, that 1000s of women particularly will be denied access to education or freedoms that any individual should enjoy.....

[chrisgel]

With regards to Muslims residing in Europe I agree with LG. I think that exposure to a "civilised" culture, with all it's benefits will eventually influence young minds that the ways of their parents and grandparents are not necessarily the best.
Unfortunately, the radical elements within Islam recognise this and target Universities, Mosques and Madrassas? in order to counter the influence of Western culture. With our American cousins "adventures" around the world providing plenty of ammunition for said radicals to win over young minds.
I fear it will take a very long time.

[Octavius]

I think even those who engage in progess will still feel (or indeed adopt and apply) the effects of mans power over women and the vulnerable.

[jim360]

Fundamentalism tends to be reactionary (creationism and "Flat-Earth" movements emerged really only in the 19th Century) and indeed in some ways is becoming disturbingly more common.

I'd hope that eventually progressives will win -- but it will be a while yet before that happens!

[ludwig]

It won't survive in the modern world because it's incompatible with it. It's no coincidence that the hotbeds of fundamentalism are backward holes where the population are relatively uneducated and poor by western standards.

As it comes into contact with modern, democratic, educated, liberal societies it will largely wither and die - but it won't be quick and it won't go without a fight - that's what we're seeing at the moment I think. The beginnings of that fight.

Christianity was the same, but thankfully that's a good few hundred years advanced, so we don't have to worry about christians wanting to burn us or torture us for blasphemy, heresy, or witchcraft any more.

[ludwig]

This is of course why people like the Taliban meet any attempt for people to educate, improve, or basically enjoy themselves (especially women) with murderous rage. They know full well it undermines their whole society, based as it is on facism, misogyny, and anchronistic mumbo jumbo.

[Peter Pedant]

Naomi ! Yup it sure can and will.

IN the seventies in the schools the Muslims were taught (er in Egypt) that Islamic fundamentalism went in 150 year cycles
and from that point of view the last one had been the
rise of the Mahdi in Sudan in the 1880s

just to give everyone a long term (and muslim) view

[modeller]

It will because it is highly rituallistic. . It is the brainwashing effect of ritual that guarantees lasting success. In the western world it's the RC.
In totalitarian states they keep their religion under state control and substitute it with constant military displays.

[sandyRoe]

The fundamentalists in the bible belt in the most modern country in the world thrive. Why shouldn't Islamic extremists prosper as well in their countries?

[emmie]

it can, and if we are not more vigilant it will march right across Europe.
sorry if that sounds alarmist, but having seen what happens here, and that its now second to Christianity, and likely to overtake that in the not too distant future, i don't see it going away any day soon. Perhaps if more people get together from all the divides, after all we haven't any words from the Sikh community, nor indeed from other non mainstream religions in Britain, if they think, believe, Islam is a threat.

what is heartening is that as you rightly pointed out the internet, worldwide communications, people can be mobilised at a moments notice, and they can see what is going on, and as we have seen in Egypt millions don't want the hardliners, who are stopping the countries from progressing.

[emmie]

sandy, they are few in number, whilst the Islamic fundamentalists are not.

[keyplus90]

Islam has nothing to worry about. Few Muslims do of course. And they are the ones who are acting upon few customs, cultural and area beliefs thinking that it is Islam. Islam does not stop (but instead encourages) to seek education and it is very clear in Quran as well as Hadith. Few Muslims in few areas stop few people (mainly women) from gaining education and again they do that due to the area customs, culture etc.

Muslims with in depth knowledge of Islam has more concern and worries about these people. They believe that Islam is being damaged more by these people as they are holding onto their customs and culture and believe it is religion. They learn about Islam from people in the area who are uneducated and know nothing themselves.

Spread of Islam in Western countries where people are educated is a sign that not only Islam will survive in the modern world but also will prosper.

[naomi24]

//The fundamentalists in the bible belt in the most modern country in the world thrive. Why shouldn't Islamic extremists prosper as well in their countries? //

Because unlike the people of Islam, those living in the bible belt of the USA are not governed by fear. They have everything they want, they are free to speak their minds, and they are free to opt out of religion if that's what they want to do. Given the choice - which many Muslims, on fear of their lives, are not - human beings will choose freedom over oppression. The two, in this respect, cannot be compared.

[birdie1971]

Keyplus - “... Spread of Islam in Western countries where people are educated is a sign that not only Islam will survive in the modern world but also will prosper...”

You may well be right and you're obviously correct that Islam has spread to most modern, educated western societies but it has not done so because the religion of Islam speaks to the modern, western person. It is not 'Islam' per se that has spread; it is muslims who carry the ideals of Islam with them and indoctrinate their children with the same intolerant nonsense.

The reason for the spread of Islam in western countries is because muslims have emigrated in huge numbers from places that many of them do not want to live (due to low wages, corruption, lack of health care, etc.) to places that offer better prospects for them personally. Not only do they relocate, most breed prodigiously due to their religious teachings and cultural traditions. The high birth rates amongst muslim families contributes significantly to the number of muslims in any one country.

You appear to see this spread of muslims and the Islamic belief as an indication that it is becoming a more and more attractive proposition for non-muslims to join the Islamic faith. You look at the figures and conclude that Islam is winning the hearts and minds of a population. You are of course quite wrong. I could go on but there's not much point in trying to convince a religious zealot of the irrationality of his argument.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, //Few Muslims in few areas stop few people (mainly women) from gaining education and again they do that due to the area customs, culture etc. //

That’s not true. It is not a few Muslims stopping a few people, and it is not due to area customs and culture. You only have to look at the ranting hordes who call for those who ‘insult’ Islam to be slaughtered, or the educated madmen who are spouting their bile in this country to see that. This is not just a few – you, personally, endorse practices that are entirely unacceptable to any civilised society. At the moment, the liberal west is far too complacent towards the creeping evil that is fundamentalist Islam, but if fundamentalists continue to attempt to impose their backward philosophy, which without doubt brings with it unthinkable restrictions to personal freedom, that complacency will eventually be replaced by determined rejection and what the fundamentalists now see as the west’s war against Islam will become a devastating reality for us all. Muslims can’t live in peace with themselves, so what chance do they have of living in peace with the rest of us? Islam is a festering blight upon humanity – and it will never be accepted by the people of the west. Stop kidding yourself.

[tonyav]

Excellent post, naomi.

[naomi24]

Thank you Tony.

[keyplus90]

//// I could go on but there's not much point in trying to convince a religious zealot of the irrationality of his argument.////

Typically well known atheistic excuse. Then I do know the difference between increase in Muslims due to immigration or birth and increase due to converting to Islam. I came here only 22 years ago and could hardly see any white locals Muslims, but now I do, everywhere. Majority of them are educated people who got fed up with your so called “modern life style”. Just learn one thing mate, that you do not have to be Western to be modern or educated. Your so called modern life does not bring anything apart from depression, selfishness and dissatisfaction in one’s life. What you people need to learn is the difference between Islam that has been through all of the tests of time for over 1400 years and extremism that is only 12 years old and has been propagated more than it exists. Just as USA & Co needed to know the difference between Taliban and American own creation Al-Qaeeda. They did not differentiate 12 years ago and now they are not only stuck but also are pleading (like it or not).

//// You only have to look at the ranting hordes who call for those who ‘insult’ Islam to be slaughtered,///

You are talking about Anjem Chaudhery brigade. Muslims are shouting for many years that please shut this person as he is only representing about 15 people and TV channels are always giving him coverage that he craves. Now UK TV channels realised that they need to ban him. British media always need someone they can use to defame Islam, either it be hook, Abu Qatada, or Anjem Chaudhery.

//// you, personally, endorse practices that are entirely unacceptable to any civilised society.///

First of all what is your definition of “civilised society” and then can you please let me know just one practise that you believe I endorsed that is not acceptable?

////Islam is a festering blight upon humanity – and it will never be accepted by the people of the west. Stop kidding yourself.////

In response to this I would only say one thing. It is not me who is kidding himself, I think it is you or otherwise sorry to say that you are blind then.