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Divisions within "Class"
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Do you think the divide in "class" is becoming more or less obvious?!
Naturally it's something that will always be around but i seem to be noticing it much more these days.
Possibly because i watch too much TV which seems to highlight it a lot. For example, on Ship Wrecked and The Apprentice in particular, there seems to be massive divide towards the working class individuals and the middle class ones... Kids at a younger age seem to notice the difference in thier background in comparison to others even though they have achieved nothing more in their life other than to have gone into a paid education?!
I find it extremely frustrating to witness, why should class hold such a massive divide in society!?
Naturally it's something that will always be around but i seem to be noticing it much more these days.
Possibly because i watch too much TV which seems to highlight it a lot. For example, on Ship Wrecked and The Apprentice in particular, there seems to be massive divide towards the working class individuals and the middle class ones... Kids at a younger age seem to notice the difference in thier background in comparison to others even though they have achieved nothing more in their life other than to have gone into a paid education?!
I find it extremely frustrating to witness, why should class hold such a massive divide in society!?
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Class and money, not necessarilly the same thing I know .
I honestly think that the divide between the people with money , or no money is becoming more noticable -but I would not say that this relates to class.
Exhibit a . Francis Fulford . cannot comment too much further as lawyers getting twichy, allegedly upper class however this buffon by his own tv admission 'does not have a pot to p*ss in.' and what a lovely disposition he has too!
Exhibit b. A top level city worker who is taking home somewhere in the order of � 7 million a year ( so is contributing a lot of tax pounds which is good for the economy) but then has a lot of surplus to play with which fuels consumerism and the housing market. Which CAN put the squeeze on others further down the monetary food chain.
I don't think that this is restricted to the UK either I think that the US partic. in New York has one of the most rigid silent class systems. Although it would appear that one is able to co-exist with slightly more ease if you have made a fortune, and are therefore deemed 'tolerable' company.
I think that the largest and most diverse class are the middle classes. The sooner every one appreciates that we are all co- reliant and should work together for the greater benefit of our whole society - the better we would be as a Nation!
I honestly think that the divide between the people with money , or no money is becoming more noticable -but I would not say that this relates to class.
Exhibit a . Francis Fulford . cannot comment too much further as lawyers getting twichy, allegedly upper class however this buffon by his own tv admission 'does not have a pot to p*ss in.' and what a lovely disposition he has too!
Exhibit b. A top level city worker who is taking home somewhere in the order of � 7 million a year ( so is contributing a lot of tax pounds which is good for the economy) but then has a lot of surplus to play with which fuels consumerism and the housing market. Which CAN put the squeeze on others further down the monetary food chain.
I don't think that this is restricted to the UK either I think that the US partic. in New York has one of the most rigid silent class systems. Although it would appear that one is able to co-exist with slightly more ease if you have made a fortune, and are therefore deemed 'tolerable' company.
I think that the largest and most diverse class are the middle classes. The sooner every one appreciates that we are all co- reliant and should work together for the greater benefit of our whole society - the better we would be as a Nation!
Hi nat, I totally abhor snobs and people that think because they have money they are somehow superior to others, anybody that works, wether it be a stockbroker or a road sweeper are to me working class,they work for a living, I own properties and have investments, but i never think of myself as superior or inferior to anybody, I come from a council estate and worked hard to achieve the things I have,we should only be judged on how we behave and treat others,but it will never be like that will it.
Put it this way, if I won several million on the lottery tomorrow I would still be working class..you wouldn't and couldn't take it out of me...ever!
I have known wealthy people who came into money..working class born, and it hadn't changed them other than he fact they had more money to play with. One in particular lived in a massive house, a 911 on the drive and a Bentley in one of the garages...but the memory of being in a bedsit with no change for the meter was never far away from his thoughts.
I have also known people who are upper class with no money. As has been said, it isn't about money ~ more to do with breeding. I remember watching a TV programme about an upper class person living in squalor. They had the breeding, the class as it were...but they liked living in filth and had no money at all.
The owner of Berkley Homes is an iliterate, illegitimate man brought up in a railway carriage. Hugely successful, and to many considered highly intelligent. His background begs to differ...and I don't think this matters to most one jot :o)
I have known wealthy people who came into money..working class born, and it hadn't changed them other than he fact they had more money to play with. One in particular lived in a massive house, a 911 on the drive and a Bentley in one of the garages...but the memory of being in a bedsit with no change for the meter was never far away from his thoughts.
I have also known people who are upper class with no money. As has been said, it isn't about money ~ more to do with breeding. I remember watching a TV programme about an upper class person living in squalor. They had the breeding, the class as it were...but they liked living in filth and had no money at all.
The owner of Berkley Homes is an iliterate, illegitimate man brought up in a railway carriage. Hugely successful, and to many considered highly intelligent. His background begs to differ...and I don't think this matters to most one jot :o)
There certainly seems to be a prevalence of people who, as you say, now presume that they are middle class due to a few academic certificates, but equally there are many people who don�t but would peer down on elements of �chaviness� and disassociate themselves from both ends of the spectrum. So where do they fit? Do they need to fit? I certainly bet they feel they need to fit somewhere � most opt for the �working class, earned a few bob and made something of myself to avoid being a chav� mould which could perhaps introduce a whole new social hierarchical class of working middle class! Snobs indeed!
A class society will always exist as people naturally divide themselves up into pigeon-holed types � usually of their own choosing but there is no escape from breeding. Some answers above have unwittingly placed themselves within a social class by referring to stereo-typical assumptions. Upper class = money / Working class = no money etc. Not so these days, it is all about attitude.
That�s what my chums Hilary St.John-Smyth and Waynella Chantelle Tiffanny Beckham tell me anyway.
A class society will always exist as people naturally divide themselves up into pigeon-holed types � usually of their own choosing but there is no escape from breeding. Some answers above have unwittingly placed themselves within a social class by referring to stereo-typical assumptions. Upper class = money / Working class = no money etc. Not so these days, it is all about attitude.
That�s what my chums Hilary St.John-Smyth and Waynella Chantelle Tiffanny Beckham tell me anyway.
Very true, Octavius..guilty as charged ;o)
It is also true that in 'the old days' money came with breeding...nowadays anyone can make a million..we have more millionaires than ever due to the lottery, celeb culture (reality TV etc) and your class or breeding matters not..this is why I made reference to money not being an issue.
What I was trying to say is that you no longer need class or breeding to be successful..which not so long ago was probably essential! in other words..I totally agree with you :o)
It is also true that in 'the old days' money came with breeding...nowadays anyone can make a million..we have more millionaires than ever due to the lottery, celeb culture (reality TV etc) and your class or breeding matters not..this is why I made reference to money not being an issue.
What I was trying to say is that you no longer need class or breeding to be successful..which not so long ago was probably essential! in other words..I totally agree with you :o)
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Actually Pippa, although quite true, many companies still adopt the private school �attitude� (see my note above) in that you will never rise to the top if you didn�t go to the �right� school. Of course to be an individual success this does not matter, but the existence of class snobbery and the old school network very much exists in quite a few top UK firms. Toffs to the top, and pennies to the minions. Jolly ho, what what.
Pipster , very rarely do not agree with your pearls of wisdom... however in the begining whoever could beat the cr*p out of the most locals and could 'oil up to the monarchy' were gifted lands and titles ... which then in time meant that some elements of that family tree were in a fortunate enough position to persue more genteel and cultured paths.( Although travelling abroad and raping and pillaging the cultures of other nations , not really all that genteel.) I still maintain that the best society is one that tries to be inclusive, not exclusive.
Interesting concept sense. We could all believe in that, but does such a society exist?
Can we expect then that future generations of toffs will be descendants of faux celebrities who made a mint out of selling their stories to the media, or won a (un)reality tv contest, or would be the (un)fortunate offspring of a backstabbing ass licking over-bearing bully who won the Apprentice once?
Can we expect then that future generations of toffs will be descendants of faux celebrities who made a mint out of selling their stories to the media, or won a (un)reality tv contest, or would be the (un)fortunate offspring of a backstabbing ass licking over-bearing bully who won the Apprentice once?
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As said class and money are not the same thing. It is all to do with "Cultural Capital" (class) vrs "Economic Capital" (money). It is whatever combination of these two classes that make your class. Some economist coined this, but I can not recall his name.
I shall use his theory to express, for example, motor cars.
For example:
No Class, No money FORD FIESTA
No Class with Money FERRARI
Class, No money MG MIDGET
Class with Money BENTLEY CONTINENTAL GT
The same theory can be expressed in Art or Music
No Class, No money CRAIG DAVID/GIRLS ALOUD
No Class with money QUEEN/GENESIS
Class, No money Philip GLASS/KATE BUSH
Class with money MOZART/STRAUSS
This is then tranfered to class status:
No Class, No money Peasant to working class
No Class with money working class to lower middle
Class No money Lower middle to middle class
Class with money Middle class to upper middle
The Upper Classes are excluded and only include Nobility and Royalty. They are a league above us mere mortals and will remain so unless revolution takes place from the peasant classes.
Hope this makes sense.
I shall use his theory to express, for example, motor cars.
For example:
No Class, No money FORD FIESTA
No Class with Money FERRARI
Class, No money MG MIDGET
Class with Money BENTLEY CONTINENTAL GT
The same theory can be expressed in Art or Music
No Class, No money CRAIG DAVID/GIRLS ALOUD
No Class with money QUEEN/GENESIS
Class, No money Philip GLASS/KATE BUSH
Class with money MOZART/STRAUSS
This is then tranfered to class status:
No Class, No money Peasant to working class
No Class with money working class to lower middle
Class No money Lower middle to middle class
Class with money Middle class to upper middle
The Upper Classes are excluded and only include Nobility and Royalty. They are a league above us mere mortals and will remain so unless revolution takes place from the peasant classes.
Hope this makes sense.
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