setting up a company

[cfb35]

Hello, I have been a face painter for many years, and essentially just take bookings and then do the work. I have been operating for the last 8 years under the same name (although it is not registered anywhere apart from the Yellow Pages, for the last 6 years), however, I recently noticed in a shop window near my home someone offering face painting using the same "company" name as me. The problem for me is that, without wanting to sound too bigheaded, I have built up a reputation city wide of being one of 4 top painters and do not want this rep being damaged. I am wondering what my options are and whether I should finally register officially as a company. Has anyone got any ideas?

[joko]

I would contact this company and tell them they have taken your name. Ask them to change it because people will disrespect them if they think they are trying to trade on the coat tails of an established reputation, and they will lose business

unfortunately this person may have registered the name/trademark and you may have to change yours????

[january_bug]

search here for the company name and see if it's already registered. If it's not, then to register it, you could either go through the process with Companies House, or, contact a company such as Oyez and buy a ready made company and pay them to change the name to the one you want. This would cost �225 and would stop anyone else trading under that name.

However, if you are going to setup as a company properly, you will soon find yourself with complications like needing to register a company secretary and directors and issuing shares to yourself. You also would have to be VAT registered and things could get very complicated.

I would suggest doing the search and seeing what's going on (i.e., are they are registered company). In terms of practical advice, joko is correct, although I'd suggest that you do it a little less insultingly and perhaps without the use of the word "disrespct" as a verb!

It may in fact be possible to register the company but do absolutely nothing with it other than hold the name to prevent others. But then if you are not actively using the company, when you had the option to, a court may not be interested in your complaints of foul play. i.e., legally, the best way to cover yourself is to register as a company with that name (quickest, but not cheapest way is to contact someone like Oyez and they will help you out). Practically, trying to settle it by letter may just work.

There's a similar story in my local area at the moment with a hairdressers salon. She has a petition going - although I don't think that would do much good!

[Buenchico]

January_Bug seems to want to go about things the hard way! Yes, you can set up a limited company (and for much less than the figure of �225 quoted) but, by so doing, you'll change your employment status. You'll become an employee of the company which you've set up, so you'll have to administer both the employer's and employee's side of PAYE. Additionally, you'll have to engage the services of a chartered accountant to audit your annual returns to Companies House. (The one thing you wouldn't need to do, despte what J_B says, is to register for VAT, because I'm sure your turnover wouldn't be high enough).
So lots of hassle, lots of money and all, I feel, totally unnecessary!

So what should you do? As Joko suggests, a letter to your new rival might be sufficient. I'd suggest keeping it polite but including something like the following:
"I hope that this problem of similar trading names can be solved amicably. I must inform you, however, that if I suffer loss of business through this breach of my intellectual property rights, I reserve the right to seek financial compensation under my common law rights relating to 'passing off' ".
To read what all of that is about, see this page of the UK government's Intellectual Property website:
http://www.intellectual-property.gov.uk/std/resources/ot her_ip_rights/passing_off.htm
(In particular, read the 2nd & 3rd paragraphs).

What else can you do? Well you could try to register your trading name as a registered trade mark. See this page:
http://www.intellectual-property.gov.uk/std/faq/trade_ma rks/protect.htm

If you decide to follow this route, you'll need to see this site:
17:22 Wed 09th Nov 2005

[Buenchico]

I've been cut-off in my prime! Here's the URL:
http://www.patent.gov.uk/tm/index.htm

Chris

[Buenchico]

I've just re-read what I suggested you should write to your rival and I'd just like to insert one extra phrase:

" . . . financial compensation, through the County Court, under my . . . " etc

Chris

[january_bug]

Chris 1 - 0 Bug - I hope you're happy now.

I actually only explained OPTIONS - and I specifically quote BUYING a company, not reigstering one. And CLEARLY stated that this was QUICKER but more expensive. That's twice that perfectly intelligent people have failed to understand the difference between buying a ready made company, and registering one from the start. Tell me - am I explaining it badly?

And Christ - I said that in practical terms a letter was better. FINE add to what I said, and by all means correct the bit about VAT ( i meant to type COULD not WOULD as I honestly wasn't sure) - but thanks a bunch for shooting my whole post down when I actually took time to offer useful adivce about how to search (or was that wrong too) - and actually tried to be of assistance.

[Buenchico]

J_B: Please calm down. I really wasn't trying to 'knock you'. It's just that I thought that your suggested nethod (or more correctly, one of your suggested methods) of dealing with this problem involved unnecessary complications. I've purchased an 'off-the-shelf' limited company in the past and this suited my purposes well but I don't think that this is the best solution for cfb35. (Incidentally, it's often cheaper to buy a company this way rather than set one up from scratch. There are plenty of firms which will sell an 'off-the-shelf' company for under �50, so I'd never recommend Oyez to anyone).

So let me state two things, LOUDLY AND CLEARLY! :

Firstly, we all AGREE that the first thing cfb35 should do is to WRITE an appropriate letter.

Secondly, although we might have disagreed here, I'm happy to publicly state that January_Bug is one of the BEST and MOST HELPFUL contributors on AB. While I will continue offer alternative viewpoints when I think that it's necessary, I genuinely VALUE and ENJOY J_B's contributions.

Keep posting J_B! Remember that most of the time we're in agreement!

Chris

[january_bug]

Cor - I flew off the handle again didn't I!?! *blushes*

Whilst I'm not asking for sympathy Chris, you may have seen my post in CB tonight and noticed that I'm having a rubbish day and feeling very low. So I probably read an insult that wasn't there. I'm sorry for going loon at you!

I must admit, Oyez is the only company I've heard of that does this - cos it's the one my boss told me to use. And he's charging it all to clients anyway!! I ought to be careful in appearing to recommend them, when really I don't know how cheap competitors are.

And I wasn't fishing for compliments, but I can safely say that your words are better applied to yourself than to me! :-)

[Buenchico]

Bug: I'm glad we got that sorted out! (& thanks for the compliment :-) ). Sorry that you're having a bad day. (I think I'm having a bad month!) Don't let the B's grind you down!

cfb35: Apologies for hijacking your thread this way!

Chris

[january_bug]

Right- I'm only posting this to say that I'm glad you saw my post Chris.

cfb35 - I too, am sorry for hijacking! I promise ABers are normally much better behaved than this! :-)

If you have any further queries, I promise to answer as best I can without getting in a strop and throwing a wobbly! :-)

[joko]

J-B - Why are you so argumentative? -

Where in my post did I say cfb should be insulting?

I was telling her the general point of the letter, not telling her what to write - (I assumed she had enough intelligence to be able to write a courteous letter without me having to dictate it to her!) - and I aimed to say it in less 1000 words - something you seem unable to do.

Why don't you get down off your high horse and stop trying to get peoples backs up? If I post trying to help someone I don't need you inventing your own version of what I meant.

Being condescending, patronising, arrogant and petty does not make you superior - it makes you an irritating know-it-all, and it is these long and pompous answers you give that make people reluctant to get involved in a thread - because you pick up on everyone elses comments, and you make assumptions about what they meant and their intentions (usually attributing them with some kind of 'attitude' that isn't there) - instead of just adding your own.

I have read many of your posts and all you seem to want to do is pull people up about things and get into a " I'm cleverer than you debate"... often apologising when you get as good as you gave.

So what if is used the word disrespect? Okay, I meant 'not respect' but so what? People understood what I meant - and at least I spelt it correctly...so ner ner!

[january_bug]

I actually meant that writing a letter saying "Don't copy me cos people will disrespect you" wasn't the most constructive approach to take. I don't think telling someone how their business will pan out is the best approach. I think that explaining the problem and being courteous, whilst explaining that you are not afraid to act, it much better than predicting the future of someone's business for them.

I totally agree with your post in principle - that a letter is the best approach to take. I said quite clearly that I agreed with your idea. I belive I'm not the only one who suggested a more polite tone to a letter - but apparently I'm the only one you want to have a go at. Seems a little unecessary I think.

I apologise if you find my posts too lengthy - feel free not to read them in the future.

I've had enough cr.ap off people tonight, and I'm not going to play that silly game with you.

[joko]

What I meant was, that to mention that aspect, given cfb's good reputation, a public assumption that this new company is playing underhanded tricks and trying to poach clients - because that's what some will think - will not be good for them.

I was not predicting or telling, merely mentioning that that kind of reputation cannot be what they want.

I think it is worth mentioning, because do you really think these people are just going to say "oh okay, no problem" I doubt it - would you?? They will have spent a lot of money on brochures advertising, websites etc, and I doubt they will just roll over without a fight, so some mention does need to be made of the possible negative public perception.

But, of course, you jumped to conclusions and thought I was suggesting barging in all guns blazing.

As I said, I assumed cfb was intelligent enough to realise that I wasn't telling her what to write, merely mentioning an aspect she should think about.

And no one else mentioned my post in the same way as you did, they were just reiterating that it should be polite - which is pretty obvious really.

I suggest you read posts more than once and try to get what the writer actually means instead of taking the first glance as fact. You told me once before that I had over explained something and was therefore being patronising, but I think in some cases, like this, it is needed.

[fluffy_bunny]

You could possibly buy the ltd company, but not trade under it, and still trade as a sole trader, but keeping the name. You will however have to submit dormant accounts to Companies House, but this should bear minimal costs compared to actually trading under the ltd company. Hope this helps.

[cfb35]

Well, Thanks for all your advice folks, I'm going to follow up with a letter once I've found out their address. I did quite like the little tiff you were all having, it added an extra bit of intrest to the thread. I'm also quite amused by the assumption that I'm female!!! (Some of the most highly skilled face and body painters worldwide are in fact male, http://www.ebf.info/engl_version/index2.htm worth a look) I am female and a very grateful one at that Thanks for all your advice C