For Keyplus - further proof as requested

[naomi24]

Not only determining gender, but CHOOSING gender. Just so that you will know this isn't a western ploy to discredit the Koran's erroneous claim that Allah determines a baby's gender 42 days after conception, I've chosen something from an Islamic website for you.

http://www.islamonlin...03/28/article03.shtml

If you want further information I suggest you google Lord Professor Robert Winston who is a world-renowned expert on the subject.

Now let us hope we have heard the last of the Koran's mistakes and seen the last of Keith Moore's ridiculous videos.

Actually although this ruling comes from Al-Azhar, and you can't get much more authoritative than that, this bit made me laugh:

“Choosing the gender is allowed (because) there is nothing in the Noble Qur’an or the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) to prohibit it.”

- except of course that the Koran states that a baby's sex is determined by Allah 42 days after conception. What a pickle!

[naomi24]

Keyplus, if it makes you feel better insult me as usual - but it won't alter the fact that you're wrong. Oh, and it was easier to post one answer here rather than in each of the threads you spread this nonsense over. Enough now. Goodnight.

[birdie1971]

Keyplus - “Scientific evidences usually take U turns”

That is because science admits its mistakes and having done so, corrects those mistakes and moves on - to the benefit of all mankind. Science has an in-built mechanism for correction; if a long held scientific theory is discredited in an irrefutable and repeatable way using the scientific method, then the long held theory is discarded and the new theory adopted.

Blinkered, simplistic and moronic individuals such as yourself see science's ability and willingness to change as a flaw. Your see your religion as immutable and unchanging and you like this idea of absolute certainty. You consider change to be your enemy. But it's not your enemy. Your enemy is religion and your own stupidity.

You and others daily reap the benefits of this ever changing scientific system. Thanks to science it is now possible to vaccinate against hundreds of diseases which would otherwise prove fatal. Thanks to science, a person with a failing internal organ can have a transplant and go on to live a normal life. Thanks to science, aid can be delivered to countries suffering from natural disasters (eg. floods caused by nature [ie. God], etc.) by the utilisation of the internal combustion engine installed in the mechanical working of a helicopter, etc.

[birdie1971]

Continued...

None of the aforementioned things have happened by praying to God. And yet time and again you attempt to claim that science is defective because it can and does change.

It's quite a pathetic argument actually. But from you, I would expect nothing less.

One last point - What do you do when you become ill Keyplus? Do you trot along to your neighbourhood Imam and say a few prayers or do you go and see a medically trained Doctor who has generations upon generations of internationally and independently verifiable scientific medical knowledge at his disposal?

[jomifl]

Hi everyone, why don't you just give up on keyplus, he (obviously) is either trying to wind you up or actually believes all this religious text stuff because it appears to support his irrational beliefs (that's probably tautological). Either way it is a waste of time and effort (though often amusing). Keyplus is very lucky that other people have developed their mental skills to such an extent that there is a modern civilization that he can enjoy without having to have to bother about how it all works.

[jomifl]

By the way the koran doesn't say that muslims can fly by Ryanair but a lot do and there aren't any instructions on the use of kalashnikov assault rifles but they are used quite a lot by muslims. The point is that the Koran like every other instruction manual became out of date the moment it was written.

[birdie1971]

Jomifl – You're right of course. I keep on trying to point out the massive logical flaws in his arguments because I am an optimist as well as an atheist. I hope that one day a lightbulb will go off in his mind and he will start to take the first tentative steps to a life of cognitive freedom and rationality.

[WaldoMcFroog]

"Can a woman tell or can a doctor or even scientist tell before 76 weeks (42) days that what a woman has conceived is male or female. No I don’t think so"

If you are now talking about the external detection of a fetus's sex, you have moved the goalposts from your earlier claim, which was unequivocably that sex was determined at 42 days. Even with ultrasound it's not normally possible to determine sex until about 12 weeks, not least because external genitals aren't differentiated sufficiently clearly until about that time. If the fetus were aborted or miscarried, it would be possible to tell the sex earlier.

However, it would be theoretically possible to take a newly fertilized egg and examine the DNA to discover what sex it would be. It is hard coded from the moment of conception as has been explained to you several times over. The reason this *isn't* done is that any procedure to do so would be invasive, unnecessary plus would require finding a single cell or a ball of cells, and thus rather difficult to do.

As Naomi has correctly stated, the fact that gender selection can be carried out for IVF treatments firmly nails the fact that the Hadith is wrong contrary to your original claim.

[naomi24]

Precisely Waldo. There's no argument.