Body & Soul0 min ago
Do you agree?
16 Answers
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-115898 1/Labour-waged-war-sense-Britishness-say-Torie s.html
Since Dominic Grieve will today be accusing Labour of waging war on Britain's history and identity, in a lecture at Queen Mary, University of London.
Wouldn't Labour love to have the power to ban him from speaking?
Since Dominic Grieve will today be accusing Labour of waging war on Britain's history and identity, in a lecture at Queen Mary, University of London.
Wouldn't Labour love to have the power to ban him from speaking?
Answers
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The problem with this issue is that as soon as it is raised it is clouded by smoke and mirrors. (OK � mirrors don�t cloud, but you know what I mean).
The first and most obvious is that of racism. As soon as anybody in the UK (and particularly in England) suggests that they might like to see their traditional way of life preserved, they are branded racist. This has stifled rational debate for the last two decades.
Then comes the issue of what is deemed �traditional� or �British�. Because of the influx of foreigners over the past 3 or 4 decades it could be argued that a wide variety of what were previously �alien� traditions are now �British�. The most glaring of these is the great Saturday night tradition of a few beers and a curry.
Most people in the UK of whatever nationality or ethnicity usually manage to get on together. Of course there are pockets of bigotry and resentment, but these are by no means confined to �white� or �English� areas.
The greatest problem of all is there is large element of the �chattering� classes who seem to believe it is there right to find fault with almost anything that white English people say or do. Unfortunately this government has had a habit of giving undue weight to their opinions � and just for balance I do not believe a Tory government would be any different. This had led to the perception � which probably is founded on some truth � that English values and traditions must be suppressed at all costs.
So I think Mr Grieve does have a point, but I would substitute �Labour� with �Government of any persuasion�.
The first and most obvious is that of racism. As soon as anybody in the UK (and particularly in England) suggests that they might like to see their traditional way of life preserved, they are branded racist. This has stifled rational debate for the last two decades.
Then comes the issue of what is deemed �traditional� or �British�. Because of the influx of foreigners over the past 3 or 4 decades it could be argued that a wide variety of what were previously �alien� traditions are now �British�. The most glaring of these is the great Saturday night tradition of a few beers and a curry.
Most people in the UK of whatever nationality or ethnicity usually manage to get on together. Of course there are pockets of bigotry and resentment, but these are by no means confined to �white� or �English� areas.
The greatest problem of all is there is large element of the �chattering� classes who seem to believe it is there right to find fault with almost anything that white English people say or do. Unfortunately this government has had a habit of giving undue weight to their opinions � and just for balance I do not believe a Tory government would be any different. This had led to the perception � which probably is founded on some truth � that English values and traditions must be suppressed at all costs.
So I think Mr Grieve does have a point, but I would substitute �Labour� with �Government of any persuasion�.
Exactly which traditional way of life is that then?
Hop picking in Kent?
Flat caps and English Bitter?
We don't have a "traditional way of life" we never have it changes from one generation to the next.
One generation's childhood memories are no more a tradition than any others.
Things Change - if you can't adapt you might as well sit on the beach and try to command the tide
Hop picking in Kent?
Flat caps and English Bitter?
We don't have a "traditional way of life" we never have it changes from one generation to the next.
One generation's childhood memories are no more a tradition than any others.
Things Change - if you can't adapt you might as well sit on the beach and try to command the tide
Exactly my second point, jake.
But there is no doubt that a large number of people in the UK believe their needs, requirements, and things they hold dear are being sacrificed on the altars of "diversity" and "multi-culturalism".
Mr Grieve is trying to reflect their views - because it seems nobody else will.
But there is no doubt that a large number of people in the UK believe their needs, requirements, and things they hold dear are being sacrificed on the altars of "diversity" and "multi-culturalism".
Mr Grieve is trying to reflect their views - because it seems nobody else will.
Most people need a 'sense of belonging', but that doesn't mean showing disrespect or disagreement. Tradition is born of history and without it there can be little or no sense of identity. England like any other country should be expected to have its own traditions. Dominic Grieve will probably be reflecting the thoughts and feelings of many people - not only British.
quinlad
( You're embarrassing yourself now. )
don't think so , is jake another one of your user names
show me a link and i will gladly stop.
thing is i have never hed a go at asylum seeker bikers
where have i said anything bad on asylum seekers ?
jake seems to like playing the race card
tick tock tick tock jaky
:::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::
( You're embarrassing yourself now. )
don't think so , is jake another one of your user names
show me a link and i will gladly stop.
thing is i have never hed a go at asylum seeker bikers
where have i said anything bad on asylum seekers ?
jake seems to like playing the race card
tick tock tick tock jaky
:::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::
DrFilth
There's a thin line between making a valid point, and becoming a bit of a stalker.
You may have crossed that line now.
New Judge - the problem is that the white people with the loudest voices are those from the far right of the political spectrum.
When they talk about British traditions, they are genuinely trying to be as non-inclusive as possible. Look what happens when a community tries to celebrate St George's Day - filth from the BNP get in on the act to drive a wedge between decent white people and black Britons.
This probably why people are suspicious of those who decry the so called destruction of British traditions. The far right have stolen the language of the moderates.
The moderates now need to stand up and reclaim that ground.
And whilst they're at it, they need to take the Union Flag off the BNP.
There's a thin line between making a valid point, and becoming a bit of a stalker.
You may have crossed that line now.
New Judge - the problem is that the white people with the loudest voices are those from the far right of the political spectrum.
When they talk about British traditions, they are genuinely trying to be as non-inclusive as possible. Look what happens when a community tries to celebrate St George's Day - filth from the BNP get in on the act to drive a wedge between decent white people and black Britons.
This probably why people are suspicious of those who decry the so called destruction of British traditions. The far right have stolen the language of the moderates.
The moderates now need to stand up and reclaim that ground.
And whilst they're at it, they need to take the Union Flag off the BNP.
I, for one, have never willingly handed MY flag over to zealots of any kidney.............however, attempts to wrest it back are often met with pursed lips and mutterings about the racist company with which it has become associated.............Unless we jettison the Union Flag and come up with a new design (a la South Africa) how on earth are we sensible folks ever to be able to reclaim OUR flag ?
sp1814
Thurs 05/03/09
10:14 DrFilth
There's a thin line between making a valid point, and becoming a bit of a stalker.
You may have crossed that line now.
who is stalking ? i have asked a question.
there are certain people on here that seem to like stirring trouble
can you give a link to any of my answers where i have had a go at asylum seeker bikers
if i am a stalker what do you call some of the people on here that see a thread about immigrants or asylum seekers and dive in .
every time the same names blame and slag the bnp are these the same person with a few user names
i am waiting for a link from jaky , if you dont like it ignore it, it really is that simple
:::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Thurs 05/03/09
10:14 DrFilth
There's a thin line between making a valid point, and becoming a bit of a stalker.
You may have crossed that line now.
who is stalking ? i have asked a question.
there are certain people on here that seem to like stirring trouble
can you give a link to any of my answers where i have had a go at asylum seeker bikers
if i am a stalker what do you call some of the people on here that see a thread about immigrants or asylum seekers and dive in .
every time the same names blame and slag the bnp are these the same person with a few user names
i am waiting for a link from jaky , if you dont like it ignore it, it really is that simple
:::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
You certainly have a point regarding extremists sp1814.
The danger is that the lack of a suitable (moderate) alternative to the main parties is driving people towards the extremes. Until and unless the parties who are likely to form a government come out of denial and accept there is a problem, then that danger will only increase.
The problem is they will not do so for fear of being labelled �nasty�, �bigots�, �racists� or worse. We need sensible debate on a problem that, whether it�s real or imagined (and even that�s never been properly debated) affects huge numbers of people.
The danger is that the lack of a suitable (moderate) alternative to the main parties is driving people towards the extremes. Until and unless the parties who are likely to form a government come out of denial and accept there is a problem, then that danger will only increase.
The problem is they will not do so for fear of being labelled �nasty�, �bigots�, �racists� or worse. We need sensible debate on a problem that, whether it�s real or imagined (and even that�s never been properly debated) affects huge numbers of people.
sp1814
the problem is that the white people with the loudest voices are those from the far right of the political spectrum.
I disagree entirely to you stereotyping the white people with the loudest voices as being from the far right.
These whites that you accuse are the one's that are now getting rather fed up of cowing and whispering in hushed tones, in case we may be classed as racist or offending someone or other.
Yes it is these more braver white people who are waking up and beginning to shout their grievances from the roof tops. So one does not have to belong to the BNP or far right as you wish to call it.
Incidentally, I listen to many radio phone-ins and if there are anyone who have the loudest voices, so much so that they are prepared to shout over the presenter, it is Blacks or Muslims, oh! and one particular Scotsman.
No this is not being racist it is fact, just listen in sometime.
the problem is that the white people with the loudest voices are those from the far right of the political spectrum.
I disagree entirely to you stereotyping the white people with the loudest voices as being from the far right.
These whites that you accuse are the one's that are now getting rather fed up of cowing and whispering in hushed tones, in case we may be classed as racist or offending someone or other.
Yes it is these more braver white people who are waking up and beginning to shout their grievances from the roof tops. So one does not have to belong to the BNP or far right as you wish to call it.
Incidentally, I listen to many radio phone-ins and if there are anyone who have the loudest voices, so much so that they are prepared to shout over the presenter, it is Blacks or Muslims, oh! and one particular Scotsman.
No this is not being racist it is fact, just listen in sometime.
New Judge
Problem is - there are loads of people who want to engage in a discussion of Britishness who genuinely are bigots.
It becomes difficult to distinguish between those who want to engage in a discussion on race, and those who simply want to 'keep Britain white'.
One other thing - this isn't coming from Guardian-reading, Clapham-living Chardonnay-drinking liberals.
It's coming from kids.
The next generation of Brits are integrated to a ridiculous extent. They're the ones who are actively discarding the language and attitudes of their elders. I see a microcosm of this every week when I pass the Arsenal Emirates stadium. About 50% of the lads there are groups of mixed white, Asian and black football fans.
They're the ones who seem to have it sussed.
Problem is - there are loads of people who want to engage in a discussion of Britishness who genuinely are bigots.
It becomes difficult to distinguish between those who want to engage in a discussion on race, and those who simply want to 'keep Britain white'.
One other thing - this isn't coming from Guardian-reading, Clapham-living Chardonnay-drinking liberals.
It's coming from kids.
The next generation of Brits are integrated to a ridiculous extent. They're the ones who are actively discarding the language and attitudes of their elders. I see a microcosm of this every week when I pass the Arsenal Emirates stadium. About 50% of the lads there are groups of mixed white, Asian and black football fans.
They're the ones who seem to have it sussed.
DrFilth
You wrote:
if i am a stalker what do you call some of the people on here that see a thread about immigrants or asylum seekers and dive in .
Big difference between engaging in a discussion and chasing the same person for a week for an apology over a previous slight.
You also wrote:
every time the same names blame and slag the bnp are these the same person with a few user names
Possibly - but what is more likely is that loads and loads and loads of people find the BNP quite...scumlike and enjoy slagging them off as much as they can.
I know I do!
You wrote:
if i am a stalker what do you call some of the people on here that see a thread about immigrants or asylum seekers and dive in .
Big difference between engaging in a discussion and chasing the same person for a week for an apology over a previous slight.
You also wrote:
every time the same names blame and slag the bnp are these the same person with a few user names
Possibly - but what is more likely is that loads and loads and loads of people find the BNP quite...scumlike and enjoy slagging them off as much as they can.
I know I do!
sp1814
( Big difference between engaging in a discussion and chasing the same person for a week for an apology over a previous slight. )
if i am correct i have asked 3 times
big diffo there
a week
dont think so
is he your partner ?
are you the same person ?
( a previous slight )
jake-the-peg
Mon 02/03/09
14:28 Why do I get the feeling that Filth would be baying for his blood had it been an asylum seeker?
TRYING to make me look like a racist, when in fact i have never had a go at slagging asylum seeker bikers
::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
( Big difference between engaging in a discussion and chasing the same person for a week for an apology over a previous slight. )
if i am correct i have asked 3 times
big diffo there
a week
dont think so
is he your partner ?
are you the same person ?
( a previous slight )
jake-the-peg
Mon 02/03/09
14:28 Why do I get the feeling that Filth would be baying for his blood had it been an asylum seeker?
TRYING to make me look like a racist, when in fact i have never had a go at slagging asylum seeker bikers
::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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