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ChatterBank2 mins ago
Extinct Species
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http://environment.independent.co.uk/wildlife/ article2843953.ece
This is awful. Is there nothing that can be done? I take it there's no way to clone anything like this? Is there any hope?
I find it maddening that this can happen in this day and age. We know what we're doing. We've got so much information, why don't we use it?
Are Scientists/Ecologists (I don't know who studies this more) just not listened to? Are there any steps by the powers being taken to stop this kind of thing. What can we do?
Guardians of the planet my ar5e!
Ahem... rant over... Sorry.
China
This is awful. Is there nothing that can be done? I take it there's no way to clone anything like this? Is there any hope?
I find it maddening that this can happen in this day and age. We know what we're doing. We've got so much information, why don't we use it?
Are Scientists/Ecologists (I don't know who studies this more) just not listened to? Are there any steps by the powers being taken to stop this kind of thing. What can we do?
Guardians of the planet my ar5e!
Ahem... rant over... Sorry.
China
Answers
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hm, well, this is down to your country, China Doll... can't help thinking they could have done something to save them if they hadn't been so busy preparing for the Olympics... But that's a good question. Is it possible to get DNA from every sort of living creature and keep it in a lab somewhere with the intention of cloning them sometime in the future?
I believe cheetahs nearly died out about 1000 years ago - scientists reckon the whole population was reduced to just one breeding couple. Even today they're still so close genetically that if some disease killed one of them it could easily wipe out the lot.
And I read somewhere just recently they think the human race also came close to extinction about 10,000 years ago, with only 1000 or so people surviving (which explains why we too display a very narrow genetic range).
I believe cheetahs nearly died out about 1000 years ago - scientists reckon the whole population was reduced to just one breeding couple. Even today they're still so close genetically that if some disease killed one of them it could easily wipe out the lot.
And I read somewhere just recently they think the human race also came close to extinction about 10,000 years ago, with only 1000 or so people surviving (which explains why we too display a very narrow genetic range).
I've followed the plight of this dolphin for a few years and have books on Chinese fauna - so I've known for a long time that it was effectively extinct. I don't know why the media have decided to pay lip service it today (quiet day for Maddy news?). I thought the only way this would get in the headlines would be if one swam up the Thames!
The time at which a sustainable Yangtse dolphin population could have been saved was probably as far back as the 1980s. It wasn't a easy task to save such an elusive animal - breeding efforts all failed.
jno - the cheetah population 'bottlenecked' thousands of years ago resulting in genetic uniformity but this was nothing to do with humans.
The time at which a sustainable Yangtse dolphin population could have been saved was probably as far back as the 1980s. It wasn't a easy task to save such an elusive animal - breeding efforts all failed.
jno - the cheetah population 'bottlenecked' thousands of years ago resulting in genetic uniformity but this was nothing to do with humans.
I'm trying to phrase this in a way that doesn't sound too critical because I don't mean it to be but I find it appalling that nobody seems to care about the extiction of insects and plants but the moment a large mammel with a smiley face goes the media is abuzz.
It seems to me that the larger animals have a much smaller effect on the ecosystem than insects and plants.
And I doubt any dolphin will habour a chemical that will be useful in the treatment of cancer.
I know Kew has a program to collect and freeze seeds from plants nearing extinction but I don't think much can be done for animals - but it would seem sensible to extract and freeze DNA samples at the very least
It seems to me that the larger animals have a much smaller effect on the ecosystem than insects and plants.
And I doubt any dolphin will habour a chemical that will be useful in the treatment of cancer.
I know Kew has a program to collect and freeze seeds from plants nearing extinction but I don't think much can be done for animals - but it would seem sensible to extract and freeze DNA samples at the very least
sorry, Aschenbach, I didn't mean to suggest any human intervention in the fate of cheetahs; I was told it was most likely disease or climate change. It looks like I was misinformed about the date, though.
http://web2.uwindsor.ca/courses/biology/macisa ac/55-437/lecture18.htm
http://web2.uwindsor.ca/courses/biology/macisa ac/55-437/lecture18.htm
jno - thanks for the link
Jake is right to highlight less high profile plants insects and mammals which play a crucial part in any ecosystem but are seldom heard of.
It could be argued that the Panda and Dodo, for example, serve a wider purpose as emblems of conservation and extinction respectively thereby increasing awareness and motivating changes in behaviour.
I don't know how sensible it is to extract DNA and pay for unlimited storage for use with as yet undiscovered technologies in the hope that robots can one day breed dolphins in testubes which won't just go extinct again when we dump them back into a river which may no longer exist. It's an exasperating problem (and sentence!)
Jake is right to highlight less high profile plants insects and mammals which play a crucial part in any ecosystem but are seldom heard of.
It could be argued that the Panda and Dodo, for example, serve a wider purpose as emblems of conservation and extinction respectively thereby increasing awareness and motivating changes in behaviour.
I don't know how sensible it is to extract DNA and pay for unlimited storage for use with as yet undiscovered technologies in the hope that robots can one day breed dolphins in testubes which won't just go extinct again when we dump them back into a river which may no longer exist. It's an exasperating problem (and sentence!)
I don't disagree with you Jake. There's a wasp about a mm long somewhere that is the basis for the entire ecosystem of a tree.
I would actually be just as cross about that wasp becoming extinct, (unfortunately I'm not sure that this would make headline grabbing news so may not be included in the popular media). I'm angry that something on the scale of a living thing becoming extinct can happen in this day and age and be entirely our fault.
We have access to so much information. We know so much. It's entirely preventable. So why does it happen? What stops it? And what are our bl00dy contigency plans if we're goinig to walk around raping the world and taking no responsibility for it?
As I've quoted before, 'can you refuse to inherit the earth?'
I would actually be just as cross about that wasp becoming extinct, (unfortunately I'm not sure that this would make headline grabbing news so may not be included in the popular media). I'm angry that something on the scale of a living thing becoming extinct can happen in this day and age and be entirely our fault.
We have access to so much information. We know so much. It's entirely preventable. So why does it happen? What stops it? And what are our bl00dy contigency plans if we're goinig to walk around raping the world and taking no responsibility for it?
As I've quoted before, 'can you refuse to inherit the earth?'
I'm not suggesting some future technology will be able to reconstruct dolphins from their dNA - that's Michael Crighton nonsense.
DNA from extinct species might be important scientically in the future to determine genetic similarity between living and extinct species, evolutionary data and all sorts of things.
It might be possible in the furure for example to create an enzyme from a DNA record - for example to produce spider silk if spiders were all extinct or some other life-saving chemical.
It's very easy to lose the biological material, The dodo went extinct only a few hundred years ago yet only 2 preserved examples remained and these were harlequins from different individuals.
We can't save all the species, it's an impossible task, many insect species are probably becoming extinct before they are even discovered but we can and should have a record of as much as possible.
It is of course worth remembering that the Earth has suffered many mass extinction events before, in five of them these over 50% of animal species died. Humanity may be causing this one but we're a long way from Nature's most savage events
DNA from extinct species might be important scientically in the future to determine genetic similarity between living and extinct species, evolutionary data and all sorts of things.
It might be possible in the furure for example to create an enzyme from a DNA record - for example to produce spider silk if spiders were all extinct or some other life-saving chemical.
It's very easy to lose the biological material, The dodo went extinct only a few hundred years ago yet only 2 preserved examples remained and these were harlequins from different individuals.
We can't save all the species, it's an impossible task, many insect species are probably becoming extinct before they are even discovered but we can and should have a record of as much as possible.
It is of course worth remembering that the Earth has suffered many mass extinction events before, in five of them these over 50% of animal species died. Humanity may be causing this one but we're a long way from Nature's most savage events
Well it gets complicated doesn't it?
There are a lot of things that are preventable but there's a bit of a sliding scale in terms of cost.
Take large infrastructure projects like the Aswan High dam that produces power for much of Egypt and controls the Nile so that the countries agriculture can be managed and not subject to floods and droughts.
To achieve this they displaced 90,000 people and even flooded the original site of the Abu Simbel temple ( which was actually physically moved)
If it had come to light that this would have made extinct a very localised beetle, would you be up there telling them to halt all of this for that?
I know that's an extreme example but as I say it's a sliding scale and there are many examples like the passenger pidgeon and nearly the American Bison where it's simply our stupidity.
We will always make species extinct, I think we should just not do it needlessly
There are a lot of things that are preventable but there's a bit of a sliding scale in terms of cost.
Take large infrastructure projects like the Aswan High dam that produces power for much of Egypt and controls the Nile so that the countries agriculture can be managed and not subject to floods and droughts.
To achieve this they displaced 90,000 people and even flooded the original site of the Abu Simbel temple ( which was actually physically moved)
If it had come to light that this would have made extinct a very localised beetle, would you be up there telling them to halt all of this for that?
I know that's an extreme example but as I say it's a sliding scale and there are many examples like the passenger pidgeon and nearly the American Bison where it's simply our stupidity.
We will always make species extinct, I think we should just not do it needlessly
Jake That's a very good point and I didn't know that. I agree with your last two lines.
But then, (and I know it's an extreme example), if we know that's what we have to do (build a damn in this case) and we know that one of the results would be the extinction of a species, is there no way we could have a contingency plan? Not exactly a Noah's Ark two of every pair type thing but something along those lines?
When my housemate is out surveying sites that are going to be build on and she finds a species of plant or animal that will be adversely effected, it's her job to say what the builders/planners (whoever) have to do in order for the survival of whatever it is she's found so their natural habitat will be effected as little as possible. Obviously it would be on a much bigger scale than that for a large infrastructure project but is it impossible to do?
And then there's what you said before about DNA records and preserving some biological material for future study, could we not at least do that if we know our actions are about to wipe out a species?
(Sorry, you probably didn't mean for your answer to produce more questions).
But then, (and I know it's an extreme example), if we know that's what we have to do (build a damn in this case) and we know that one of the results would be the extinction of a species, is there no way we could have a contingency plan? Not exactly a Noah's Ark two of every pair type thing but something along those lines?
When my housemate is out surveying sites that are going to be build on and she finds a species of plant or animal that will be adversely effected, it's her job to say what the builders/planners (whoever) have to do in order for the survival of whatever it is she's found so their natural habitat will be effected as little as possible. Obviously it would be on a much bigger scale than that for a large infrastructure project but is it impossible to do?
And then there's what you said before about DNA records and preserving some biological material for future study, could we not at least do that if we know our actions are about to wipe out a species?
(Sorry, you probably didn't mean for your answer to produce more questions).
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