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Following on from a post below about Spiritualism I just wanted to ask AB'ers, not WHAT they believe happens when we die, but WHY they believe what they do.
I believe that we simply die, and our various molecules are dispersed into our surroundings, no soul, no consciousness and no afterlife. The reason that I believe this is that I only believe in things that are proved through scientific means. I also believe in things if our current knowedge of science indicates that it is the most likely scenario.
I can't prove that a spirit doesn't live on in some 'place', but I can't prove any number of billions of things, such as that our spirit is immediately transported to a place of torture, or that the moment we die, our spirits are reincarnated into the bodies of fruit flies. I don't see the reasoning behind the idea that if something is not provable it is justified in believing in. Where is that leap made?
Why believe 1 thing that is unprovable (such as spirits being transported to a happy place), over another (such as spirits being trapped for eternity in their graves)?
I believe that we simply die, and our various molecules are dispersed into our surroundings, no soul, no consciousness and no afterlife. The reason that I believe this is that I only believe in things that are proved through scientific means. I also believe in things if our current knowedge of science indicates that it is the most likely scenario.
I can't prove that a spirit doesn't live on in some 'place', but I can't prove any number of billions of things, such as that our spirit is immediately transported to a place of torture, or that the moment we die, our spirits are reincarnated into the bodies of fruit flies. I don't see the reasoning behind the idea that if something is not provable it is justified in believing in. Where is that leap made?
Why believe 1 thing that is unprovable (such as spirits being transported to a happy place), over another (such as spirits being trapped for eternity in their graves)?
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Well because it's some sort of comfort poppet. Some people don't want to believe that once you're dead you're just worm food. That life has a bigger meaning, something else, something that can be aspired to. The prospect of death is very frightening to some people and as with all things, a crutch is reached for in order to support the idea. Why else would some people who are about to die suddenly find God?
For others they have been brought up to believe that we are part of something bigger and better and that we're returning to the true home of our spirit.
I see alot of teminally ill people on a daily basis. I think whatever provides you comfort and helps you carry on with what you have left is a fantastic thing. I personally don't have faith in it, but I wish I did.
For others they have been brought up to believe that we are part of something bigger and better and that we're returning to the true home of our spirit.
I see alot of teminally ill people on a daily basis. I think whatever provides you comfort and helps you carry on with what you have left is a fantastic thing. I personally don't have faith in it, but I wish I did.
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We've been doing it for 2000 years, it's not that odd really I don't think honey.
Having faith in something answers a lot of questions, not just death but the why were are here and meaning to life ones and actually to someone who has faith that there is something out there then I suspect they would say they 'know' that something better awaits.
I think there used to be scientists/philosophers who after argueing the case for there being no God or any kind of afterlife came round full circle and started believing it because the idea that we are totally alone and there really is no major reason as to the whys and wherefores of us being here and no governing power with a kind of divine justice, is really a rather terrifying prospect for some people.
Why believe that one thing is unprovable? Your belief that we become just part of the landscape is also unprovable in so far as the spirit is concerned. I think like anything, it's just a leap of faith that makes one person believe something else. It's all subjective to the type of person you are.
(Incidently, I'm convinced you're straying in to a bottle of wine at 1am conversation territory here... this might be a bit much for my brain on a thursday afternoon!)
Having faith in something answers a lot of questions, not just death but the why were are here and meaning to life ones and actually to someone who has faith that there is something out there then I suspect they would say they 'know' that something better awaits.
I think there used to be scientists/philosophers who after argueing the case for there being no God or any kind of afterlife came round full circle and started believing it because the idea that we are totally alone and there really is no major reason as to the whys and wherefores of us being here and no governing power with a kind of divine justice, is really a rather terrifying prospect for some people.
Why believe that one thing is unprovable? Your belief that we become just part of the landscape is also unprovable in so far as the spirit is concerned. I think like anything, it's just a leap of faith that makes one person believe something else. It's all subjective to the type of person you are.
(Incidently, I'm convinced you're straying in to a bottle of wine at 1am conversation territory here... this might be a bit much for my brain on a thursday afternoon!)
Why have a leap of faith is what I'm asking. When I say we scatter to the earth, i'm not implying a soul at all, merely are molecules, which is of course, fact.
Taking religion out of it, surely people must realise that they're making a leap into the fantastic, and to pick one random spirit theory over another is a bit bonkers? Surely the only reason people believe in a happy spiritual place rather than a place of horror is just to offer comfort? Does that not make people think that it's probably not true?
Taking religion out of it, surely people must realise that they're making a leap into the fantastic, and to pick one random spirit theory over another is a bit bonkers? Surely the only reason people believe in a happy spiritual place rather than a place of horror is just to offer comfort? Does that not make people think that it's probably not true?
It's all why, why, why with you today isn't it?! ;0P
Seriously tho...I do understand what you're saying but even when you take religion out of it some people don't want to believe we're alone in the universe period. They could believe in anything aliens, narnia, never never land, that Donatello was the best TMNT... I agree, all pretty fantastic but it's something.
I know what you mean when you say that just because it's comforting doesn't make it true or indeed implies that it's not true but I think that's a leap of faith in itself as that's not provable and doesn't really follow a logic either. It's all subjective.
I've had the same sort of conversation with my mum who's quite religious and whenever we talk about this leap of faith that you have to make if you believe in anything and I ask similar stuff to you and she will come back that to have faith is to 'know' that there is something else. So someone like her is never going to ask the question you're asking because they already 'know' that there is somethign out there because they made that leap of faith that you (and I) can't. That's the difference I think, we can't grasp how they think but they can understand why we think what we think (if that makes any sense)... that's when you end up with one of those serene knowing smiles that creep me out...
Have a good one petal.
Seriously tho...I do understand what you're saying but even when you take religion out of it some people don't want to believe we're alone in the universe period. They could believe in anything aliens, narnia, never never land, that Donatello was the best TMNT... I agree, all pretty fantastic but it's something.
I know what you mean when you say that just because it's comforting doesn't make it true or indeed implies that it's not true but I think that's a leap of faith in itself as that's not provable and doesn't really follow a logic either. It's all subjective.
I've had the same sort of conversation with my mum who's quite religious and whenever we talk about this leap of faith that you have to make if you believe in anything and I ask similar stuff to you and she will come back that to have faith is to 'know' that there is something else. So someone like her is never going to ask the question you're asking because they already 'know' that there is somethign out there because they made that leap of faith that you (and I) can't. That's the difference I think, we can't grasp how they think but they can understand why we think what we think (if that makes any sense)... that's when you end up with one of those serene knowing smiles that creep me out...
Have a good one petal.
I believe in ghosts because I have seen them, I believe in angels because I've read of angel experiences and I believe these peoples experiences are otherwise unexplainable. I believe in the afterlife because my Dad has communicated to me from there about something which had meaning only to me.
If its believable to you thru life experiences its enough.
If its believable to you thru life experiences its enough.
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