C-sections

[vittoria]

I have read the recent reports about NICE's guidelines to make women who are 'too posh to push' go for vaginal deliveries instead. I can't tell you how insulting I find these views. I was severely traumatised by my daughter's birth and these days I find it difficult even to walk into an NHS hospital again. I would never consider having another baby unless I could be assured I could have a C-section, preferably privately because I have lost trust and respect for the NHS after the appalling treatment that was meted out in the hospital my daughter was born in. I wish I could write to the Nat'l Institute for Clinical Excellence to tell them what I think about their attitude - cracking down on inappropriate and unnecessary caesarians whilst still giving women the choice - what a joke!!! - but I suppose they would bin my letter. Any other views? No insults please.

[sft42]

Look....no one is really interested in your rantings....you made a point and asked for other views....I gave one and because it wan't the same as your viewpoint you didn't like it....I tried to back up what the clinical standpoint is, as far as I am aware having worked in the fringes of the NHS, with some figures and based it around generalisations rather than refering to you but you feel it was a personal attack (not so I assure you).....further more you obviously don't want to hear about the 99% of patients that are treated well by the NHS....as I said right at the start it's a shame that you had a bad experience.....maybe you would do well to try and put it behind you and get on with your life and not worry about it eh?

To be honest I couldn't give a stuff if you squeeze out another sprog or not......good if you do, good if you don't.....there's a lot bigger stuff going on in the world.

[Gef]

vittoria, I have read your original post and all of the responses many times. You asked for views and no insults and that is what you got. If you are still upset by your experience then I don't think answerbank is the best place for you. I think people have given their honest opinions. This is not meant to be condescending and I hope you are not upset by this.

[darth vader]

Sorry vittoria but whilst i feel for your problem i have to agree with sfts comments here. If you want a c-section then that is your choice but you can't expect the NHS to pay for it unless there is a genuine reason i.e. danger to mother or baby. Whilst c-sections are sometimes necessary there are many cases where it is the "easy option (2P2P)" and the NHS doctors have to make a decision. They are not "covering their @arses" they are victims of a deteriorating state which is dragging itself down to the levels of the USA where they sue for the slightest things - christ there was a question on AB not long back about who to sue because the person had tripped over the pavement! Anyway back to the point - it is generally considered that the NHS is the envy of the world and the majority of people get good treatment but there are isolated cases and incidents and yours appears to be one, but this does NOT mean the next time will be the same. You are obviously still feeling the effects of your first birth (this was 5 years ago? i seriously recommend you see someone about this if you're still suffering mentally after 5 years) so another NHS birth is not an option for you and thanks to capitalism you have the choice to pay for private care (and a c-section if you want it) but you can't walk into an NHS hospital and expect a c-section just because you demand it.
Mrs vader gave birth to both darthlets in NHS hospitals - both went fine, both times the nurses/midwives/doctors were excellent, friendly and very professional. We could have had private care but chose to put faith in the NHS. the NHS gets a bad rap from the public but generally they do a good job, and against the odds in a country which is swaying increasingly to capitalism. I'm not siding with sft42 here just giving you my opinon also (without insults i hope!)

[apricot]

This comes from a mum who gave birth to twins at the age of 19. One of the twins was 10lbs and had serious heart defects and hydrocephalus. The other twin was stillborn. I think I can empathise with trauma. I still remember all the details vividly but I have learned to cope with it. It will not rule my life or prevent me from wanting another child as the desire for a child would always outweigh personal concerns. Feel free to pay for you c-section or have a home birth. I was threatened with the first and refused the second due to the twins. You CAN write to the authority and make your opinion known. We live in a democracy and that is how things get changed, through personal intervention and pressure groups. The way forward is through action not anger.

[coggles]

Hello Vittoria, When I was due to have our first baby over 4 years ago, I wrote out a 'birth plan' as advised by many people. Basically, I wished for a birth with as little pain relief as poss, no epidural and certainly not a c section. However, having had contractions from very early hours of thursday and having not progressed further than 2 cm's by the early hours of Saturday morning (in hospital) I was rushed for a c section because the babys heartbeat had dropped. Thankfully our daughter was born healthy. 3 years later after a seemingly routine check up at my local doctors, I was sent to hospital, where I stayed for 3 weeks before our 2nd baby was born by c section because her heartbeat was becoming slower as each day went by. Neither births were what I (or my husband) expected, but we are both just eternally grateful that we have 2 healthy children. Apricot, I can't imagine what you, and others have been through, but having 'chatted' to you on another site, I admire you even more for what you have experienced. (Hope that doesn't sound patronising). Vittoria, I am sorry you have had such a bad experience. There are obviously people who are too posh to push. As long as they don't put emergency c sections at risk and don't clog up the system by using NHS, it is their choice. Looking after a toddler and a new born after a section is no easy task - unless you have hired help, or, in my case, family that can help out.

[vittoria]

secretspirit, your feelings are also my feelings.

[vittoria]

Some of the replies I agree with, some a little less, but I note the only rude and aggressive ones have been from sft42.

[darth vader]

he's scottish. you have to allow for that.

[darth vader]

JOKE! (before you kick me off answerbook :-)

[vittoria]

Can I just add an afterthought... obviously I did not explain myself very well, but if I was having a "rant" at anyone, it was NICE, not the NHS... and also: thinking back of the replies I got, they were divided along the gender line; the women empathised more. Here's a funny story (at least I hope it's funny). A friend of mine was desperate to have her second baby by VBAC; she delayed going to hospital so much (because she was terrified that if she set foot in a hospital they would force her to have a C-section) that she ended up having the baby in the car, in the hospital car park. I swear it's all true. The story did the rounds of our group of friends at dinner parties etc. and do you know what all the husbands asked? "was the car ruined?"

[Sarahbingley]

I too want to have a caesarian but am receiving a lot of abuse from my GP and my family. I have been told that I will not be 'allowed' to have one on the NHS, and will need to go privately. Does anyone know where to contact about this and how much it costs. I looked at the Portland website and found it would cost about 10,000 pounds, (4,300 for the caesarian, 4,000 for the consultant and some for the stay). Is this the normal rate as I can't afford this and feel that I may have to be bullied by the NHS.

[vittoria]

Sarahbingley - if you read this - today 22nd Aug 2004, the Observer newspaper reports that NICE (Institute of Clinical Excellence) have backtracked and now say that a woman's wishes have to be respected, so please insist with your GP etc. if you feel a C-section is the right decision for you.

[alijangra]

IMO c-sections should only be used where there is clinical need. In your case, vittoria, there is clinical need because of your previous traumatic experience which must be documented in your medical notes. I am not a midwife but I am a trained nurse and spent time in maternity. C section is not the easy option that everyone thinks, it is major abdominal surgery and along with that goes all the risks post-op such as pain and infection, and of course a much longer recovery period. I dont think it should ever be an option for people to choose just because they cant be bothered giving birth, but it certainly must be available to women who really require it, and I believe that is the case. Like every other area of the NHS, maternity units are under-staffed and under-funded. Your comment about seeing different midwives is interesting...they work shift patterns, many having family commitments and holiday commitments like the rest of the UK workforce. Unfortunately thats they way it is, they cannot be on call 24/7.