ChatterBank3 mins ago
The term Politicaly Correct?
Not news, but we deal with this P.C term alot in life for fear of insulting a group of people, the wrong wording blah blah blah...
My Q. is when was this term introduced and by who? was it political spin and by which party? was it right wing or left wing? Why was it introduced at all? I dont remember this PC stuff being around when programmes like 'Open All Hours' was on, or 'Till Death Do Us Part' just an example to give as I was watching Ronnie Barker yesterday and giggling at his stammer lol... not PC these days then?....
My Q. is when was this term introduced and by who? was it political spin and by which party? was it right wing or left wing? Why was it introduced at all? I dont remember this PC stuff being around when programmes like 'Open All Hours' was on, or 'Till Death Do Us Part' just an example to give as I was watching Ronnie Barker yesterday and giggling at his stammer lol... not PC these days then?....
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The examples quoted by JudgeJ are worrying because they give credence to the impression that serious debate can be interpreted as hate crime.
I absolutely hate Christians who complain about gay rights. I rarely use the word 'hate' when it comes to other humans, but these people are vile...using their religion, much like extremist Muslims to further their own take on what the world should be like.
However, I'd rather let them have their say because it's better that it's out in the open.
Silent prejudice is difficult to fight. Open prejudice is easy.
I absolutely hate Christians who complain about gay rights. I rarely use the word 'hate' when it comes to other humans, but these people are vile...using their religion, much like extremist Muslims to further their own take on what the world should be like.
However, I'd rather let them have their say because it's better that it's out in the open.
Silent prejudice is difficult to fight. Open prejudice is easy.
There's nothing wrong with serious debate. Oh that some issues were considered serious, or even debated, however the 'mock the PC' bigots (I am not referring to JudjeJ here) don't even know how to begin to debate the issues in point, they prefer to hurl abuse, knowing their arguments wouldn;t stand up.
Political Correctness is just another attempt by the powers that be to interfere and dictate to people what they can and can't do / say.
The idiots who enforce and dream up these things want to impose their left wing utopia on the rest of us.
They want a world where there is no division, everyone gets along and humanity can live following by their warped values and agendas. Issues that don't matter are paramount and important matters that don't fit in with their views are ignored or smeared.
Another term that you could put with PC is Health and Safety. A different name but the same intention as PC, ie to control and limit peoples actvities to fit in with what is deemed to be acceptable.
The idiots who enforce and dream up these things want to impose their left wing utopia on the rest of us.
They want a world where there is no division, everyone gets along and humanity can live following by their warped values and agendas. Issues that don't matter are paramount and important matters that don't fit in with their views are ignored or smeared.
Another term that you could put with PC is Health and Safety. A different name but the same intention as PC, ie to control and limit peoples actvities to fit in with what is deemed to be acceptable.
the idea that objections to certains words don't usually come from the people affected, as JudgeJ suggests, doesn't tally with experience. You don't think black people object to being called *******? Go to Brixton and test this theory out some time. Or stand in Golders Green yelling 'Oy, ****!' You might be surprised to find the objections don't in fact come from some faceless PC board after all..
jno
The 2 examples you slipped in ( well done) are quite rightly outside accepted standards of what is considered PC.
The cases that get everybody shaking their heads are the petty and pathetic ones , such as the case in todays papers about staff in Geordie areas being told not to refer to each other as "pet".
Utterly infuriating.
The 2 examples you slipped in ( well done) are quite rightly outside accepted standards of what is considered PC.
The cases that get everybody shaking their heads are the petty and pathetic ones , such as the case in todays papers about staff in Geordie areas being told not to refer to each other as "pet".
Utterly infuriating.
But of course, in their time, those words were in fact widely used as normal and it had to be pointed out that they were offensive. Society, much later, catches up, and the notion that it is offensive is taken for granted, forgetting that people had to push for this in the first place. Even now, the term ikaP (backwards) is used routinely by many people who would say 'racist, who, me?' if one even dares to point it out. And by not doing so, I and others are having these offensive terms rammed down our throats on an all- too- frequent basis.
To amplify jno's point, one of the reasons why, sometimes, protest does not appear to come from those so-called groups is that some of these groups are so excluded that they don't have the same platform or voice as all of us take for granted.
To amplify jno's point, one of the reasons why, sometimes, protest does not appear to come from those so-called groups is that some of these groups are so excluded that they don't have the same platform or voice as all of us take for granted.
Unfortunately, jno, you are incorrect. Rather fortuitously I know somebody who works for Newcastle City Council and I spoke to him last night to get the low-down. Their instructions are far more robust than you suggest. They have been �advised� (for which I read �told�) to address women by their full names in all circumstances and more specifically not to use, among other things, the traditional Geordie terms such as �pet� and �hinnie�.
Most people are quite able to determine how to address somebody with whom they are dealing � they do not need to be told. In the case of the Council workers, many of them no doubt deal with older people who have been used to being addressed as �pet� all their lives. They take no offence and most of them probably see the term as one of endearment. To suddenly be addressed as Mrs McTavish by somebody who has been calling them �pet� for the last five years may lead some of them to think they are about to depart this mortal coil.
Of course, this instruction will not only apply to dealings with their customers. It will not be long before we read of a Newcastle Council worker taking her employer to court because her life has been devastated by a male colleague referring to her as a �canny lass�.
Few people would argue about the suitability of the terms which were quoted as examples yesterday. This is not PC, but plain respect and common sense. But most would argue that the Geordies should be allowed to make up their own minds whether to address an 80 year old lady as �pet� or not.
Social engineering (for this is all it is, under the guise of people management) is not within the bailiwick of Local Authorities. People do not need their lives micro-managed by government. It is this sort of story which I think yesmadam had in mind.
Most people are quite able to determine how to address somebody with whom they are dealing � they do not need to be told. In the case of the Council workers, many of them no doubt deal with older people who have been used to being addressed as �pet� all their lives. They take no offence and most of them probably see the term as one of endearment. To suddenly be addressed as Mrs McTavish by somebody who has been calling them �pet� for the last five years may lead some of them to think they are about to depart this mortal coil.
Of course, this instruction will not only apply to dealings with their customers. It will not be long before we read of a Newcastle Council worker taking her employer to court because her life has been devastated by a male colleague referring to her as a �canny lass�.
Few people would argue about the suitability of the terms which were quoted as examples yesterday. This is not PC, but plain respect and common sense. But most would argue that the Geordies should be allowed to make up their own minds whether to address an 80 year old lady as �pet� or not.
Social engineering (for this is all it is, under the guise of people management) is not within the bailiwick of Local Authorities. People do not need their lives micro-managed by government. It is this sort of story which I think yesmadam had in mind.
JudgeJ, I would guess that the threat of legal action lies behind all this. Someone is (say) refused a benefit they think they're entitled to; they take it to a tribunal and, as evidence that their claim was not treated with due seriousness, they say they were addressed with some local term of endearment which (perhaps not being local themselves?) they found simply patronising and dismissive. I think they would have a point. As I said, I'd personally prefer to be treated with language that is civil and neutral. Whether the 'advice' is later extended to cover staff's conversations among themselves is just speculation; it's not in the 'ban', as far as I know.
Hello and Good Morning All,
I will tell you now that I had absolutely no read examples in mind.
I do not read newspapers.
I actually, for some bizarre reason, went to bed the other night wondering where the term PC came from. And that is my original question.
And my answer came from suffragette.
Please do not assume or presume of me.
A simple question, that became a learning curve for history for me and others.
Thank You for Your Answers and Opinions.
I will tell you now that I had absolutely no read examples in mind.
I do not read newspapers.
I actually, for some bizarre reason, went to bed the other night wondering where the term PC came from. And that is my original question.
And my answer came from suffragette.
Please do not assume or presume of me.
A simple question, that became a learning curve for history for me and others.
Thank You for Your Answers and Opinions.
JudgeJ, I can find no credible reference to support the view that there is such a ban on the use of words such 'pet' etc. I can find several examples of a Council spokesperson saying the policy has been misreported and it says no such thing.
I don't know anyone who works there, but I am a master of the art of Freedom of Information requests. I'm now going to request a copy of any equalities material that makes reference to how to address anyone.
If I find an anonymous FTP where I can host them for public viewing, are we both happy to agree to abide by the facts?
I don't know anyone who works there, but I am a master of the art of Freedom of Information requests. I'm now going to request a copy of any equalities material that makes reference to how to address anyone.
If I find an anonymous FTP where I can host them for public viewing, are we both happy to agree to abide by the facts?
Certainly, waldo. I am only assuming that what my "geordie" friend tells me is correct. I've seen nothing.
However, even if the matter has been "over reported" I am still sceptical that the local authority's motives are as they describe. There should be no need for them to "advise" their staff how to conduct themselves in such matters.
However, even if the matter has been "over reported" I am still sceptical that the local authority's motives are as they describe. There should be no need for them to "advise" their staff how to conduct themselves in such matters.
Hi jno, thanks for the pointer. :)
It was by pure coincidence that another poster put up a Q. on here regarding pc news per se, so I can see where that idea came from.
I enjoy the discussions on here and let run as that is others having their say.
It also lets people think.
Have a lovely afternoon.
YM.
It was by pure coincidence that another poster put up a Q. on here regarding pc news per se, so I can see where that idea came from.
I enjoy the discussions on here and let run as that is others having their say.
It also lets people think.
Have a lovely afternoon.
YM.
JudgeJ:
Duly sent as follows:
-------------------------------------------
Dear FOI Officer,
I would like to apply under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 for electronic copies of all Equalities and Diversities materials circulated to staff. In particular, I would like to see any material that relates to the recent course that has given rise to the news stories about the alleged banning of the use of words such as 'Pet' or 'Hinny'. I am aware that that Council has denied there is any such ban in place.
Additionally, I wish to see copies of all emails from Council officers relating to this matter being reported in the press.
I would like to receive the information by email if possible. I look forward to hearing from you shortly, and in any case within the twenty working days specified under the Act.
Yours faithfully,
Etc (like I'm giving my real name out...)
-----------------------------------
This does rather all hinge on me being able to find an anonymous way of posting it to the internet. Should be possible... See you in 20 working days. Feel free to remind me.
Duly sent as follows:
-------------------------------------------
Dear FOI Officer,
I would like to apply under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 for electronic copies of all Equalities and Diversities materials circulated to staff. In particular, I would like to see any material that relates to the recent course that has given rise to the news stories about the alleged banning of the use of words such as 'Pet' or 'Hinny'. I am aware that that Council has denied there is any such ban in place.
Additionally, I wish to see copies of all emails from Council officers relating to this matter being reported in the press.
I would like to receive the information by email if possible. I look forward to hearing from you shortly, and in any case within the twenty working days specified under the Act.
Yours faithfully,
Etc (like I'm giving my real name out...)
-----------------------------------
This does rather all hinge on me being able to find an anonymous way of posting it to the internet. Should be possible... See you in 20 working days. Feel free to remind me.
Waldo, i would think that there are undoubtedly cases of this kind of report being fictious. I also think that there are cases that are genuine, but when there is a reaction that exposes these ideas as the petty narrow minded load of rubbush that they are they are quickly denied.
I have seen in other threads that you have experience of this kind of thing so what do you think? Are all these reports sensationalism or is there a case to answer?
I have seen in other threads that you have experience of this kind of thing so what do you think? Are all these reports sensationalism or is there a case to answer?
Actually, JTB, if you'd been around longer, you would know that I have been known to decry *some* so-called 'PC Gone Mad' stories if proved true.
My problems are:
a) they're frequently - dare I say normally - not true, and normally disproved with a couple of minutes basic Googling.
b) 'PC Gone Mad' is lazy terminology and encourages knee-jerk reactions. There's frankly nothing more pitiful than the people from most priviliged sections of society wailing about how victimised they are when it's manifestly not true.
c) Individual cases of stupidity do not amount to a shadowy cartel of Guardian reading liberal elitists* imposing a deep and dark agenda on the rest of society, no matter how hard the right wing press bleats it is true. Conspiracy theories are nonsense whether they postulate left wing or right wing conspiracies.
My problems are:
a) they're frequently - dare I say normally - not true, and normally disproved with a couple of minutes basic Googling.
b) 'PC Gone Mad' is lazy terminology and encourages knee-jerk reactions. There's frankly nothing more pitiful than the people from most priviliged sections of society wailing about how victimised they are when it's manifestly not true.
c) Individual cases of stupidity do not amount to a shadowy cartel of Guardian reading liberal elitists* imposing a deep and dark agenda on the rest of society, no matter how hard the right wing press bleats it is true. Conspiracy theories are nonsense whether they postulate left wing or right wing conspiracies.
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