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Met Police Commissioner Accused Of Calling For 'more Black Boys To Be Locked Up'
32 Answers
Where does Cressida Dick actually say this?
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Answers
She doesn’t – in so many words. But Frances Crook, the chief executive of the Howard League for Penal Reform (at whose meeting Ms Dick was speaking) does. She said the Commissioner had “used the opportunity to call for more young children, in effect more black boys, to be sent to prison and for longer”. The issue of whether black people should be...
14:11 Sat 11th Nov 2017
New Judge
And the American survey?
Is that flawed too?
You ask:
//What do you mean by “higher than their number should be”. It is no use simply saying that, because ex-servicemen and women make up x% of the population, they should only make up x% of the prison population//
But this is what AOG is saying about black people. Do you defend that stance?
And the American survey?
Is that flawed too?
You ask:
//What do you mean by “higher than their number should be”. It is no use simply saying that, because ex-servicemen and women make up x% of the population, they should only make up x% of the prison population//
But this is what AOG is saying about black people. Do you defend that stance?
New Judge
This isn’t the only report on the matter:
http://
Incidentally, rubbishing the latest report because Lammy happens to be black and an advocate of equality is weak.
This isn’t the only report on the matter:
http://
Incidentally, rubbishing the latest report because Lammy happens to be black and an advocate of equality is weak.
///Incidentally, rubbishing the latest report because Lammy happens to be black and an advocate of equality is weak.///
Mmm, only he didn't. He rubbished the report because it was rubbish, iho.
He said it could hardly be considered independent for the reasons you've given.
Me, I wouldn't bother with it because he's thick as two short planks and a racist. Is that weak?
Mmm, only he didn't. He rubbished the report because it was rubbish, iho.
He said it could hardly be considered independent for the reasons you've given.
Me, I wouldn't bother with it because he's thick as two short planks and a racist. Is that weak?
She didn't AOG - as has been pointed out, this is just media spin.
It's from exactly the same drawer as all this nonsense about tax evaders being 'exposed' or 'caught out' as the screaming headlines have it, before grudgingly admitting that the people to whom they refer have done nothing illegal.
How can you be 'exposed' or 'caught out' if you are not doing anything wrong?
Only if the media wants to make it look like you are a criminal - but have to avoid libel charges by confirming that you are not.
The same spin is applied here - inference is not fact, and this is spin, not news.
It's from exactly the same drawer as all this nonsense about tax evaders being 'exposed' or 'caught out' as the screaming headlines have it, before grudgingly admitting that the people to whom they refer have done nothing illegal.
How can you be 'exposed' or 'caught out' if you are not doing anything wrong?
Only if the media wants to make it look like you are a criminal - but have to avoid libel charges by confirming that you are not.
The same spin is applied here - inference is not fact, and this is spin, not news.
“And the American survey? “
Didn’t read it. I’m not too interested in or knowledgeable of American matters.
As has been mentioned, I didn’t rubbish Mr Lammy’s report because of his credentials. I suggested his qualities meant it was not independent. I consider it to be rubbish because, if you read all of it (which I have) and you have some knowledge of the Criminal Justice System and in particular sentencing (which I also have) you will realise it is naïve in its simplistic approach.
Criminal sentencing is a complex issue and the range of sentences available to judges and Magistrates for any individual offence is often considerable. To simply say that black people receive harsher sentences for “similar” offences is meaningless. I haven’t read the second report you cite but I imagine it reaches similar conclusions using a similar approach.
//What do you mean by “higher than their number should be”. It is no use simply saying that, because ex-servicemen and women make up x% of the population, they should only make up x% of the prison population//
“But this is what AOG is saying about black people. Do you defend that stance?”
I didn’t know that AOG said anything of the sort. From my point of view I do not see any reason why the percentage of (say) black people in prison should be the same as the percentage of black people in the population as a whole. By that reasoning you might as well say that half of all prisoners should be women. Clearly they are not (the figure is a little under 5%).
There is no evidence in Mr Lammy’s report (and probably the other you cited though I cannot be sure because I haven’t read it) that sentences are harsher for black people because they are black. There is a multitude of reasons why sentences vary and simply saying that a section of the population receives harsher sentences because of their race is far too simplistic.
Didn’t read it. I’m not too interested in or knowledgeable of American matters.
As has been mentioned, I didn’t rubbish Mr Lammy’s report because of his credentials. I suggested his qualities meant it was not independent. I consider it to be rubbish because, if you read all of it (which I have) and you have some knowledge of the Criminal Justice System and in particular sentencing (which I also have) you will realise it is naïve in its simplistic approach.
Criminal sentencing is a complex issue and the range of sentences available to judges and Magistrates for any individual offence is often considerable. To simply say that black people receive harsher sentences for “similar” offences is meaningless. I haven’t read the second report you cite but I imagine it reaches similar conclusions using a similar approach.
//What do you mean by “higher than their number should be”. It is no use simply saying that, because ex-servicemen and women make up x% of the population, they should only make up x% of the prison population//
“But this is what AOG is saying about black people. Do you defend that stance?”
I didn’t know that AOG said anything of the sort. From my point of view I do not see any reason why the percentage of (say) black people in prison should be the same as the percentage of black people in the population as a whole. By that reasoning you might as well say that half of all prisoners should be women. Clearly they are not (the figure is a little under 5%).
There is no evidence in Mr Lammy’s report (and probably the other you cited though I cannot be sure because I haven’t read it) that sentences are harsher for black people because they are black. There is a multitude of reasons why sentences vary and simply saying that a section of the population receives harsher sentences because of their race is far too simplistic.
New Judge
Every few months or so, AOG asks why the black population of prison is in excess of the proportion in the wider society.
This isn't the first report on the matter. The MoJ commissioned one back in 2011, which is the one I linked to separately.
AOG was asking why the black prison population exceeded the percentage of black people in the UK. There are a number of factors, but we should not discount inbuilt racism.
Young black people are seen as criminals by society (and not just white people). There was an interesting social experiment which highlighted just that a few years ago:
A completely colour blind justice system is the ultimate goal. I don't think we are there yet.
Every few months or so, AOG asks why the black population of prison is in excess of the proportion in the wider society.
This isn't the first report on the matter. The MoJ commissioned one back in 2011, which is the one I linked to separately.
AOG was asking why the black prison population exceeded the percentage of black people in the UK. There are a number of factors, but we should not discount inbuilt racism.
Young black people are seen as criminals by society (and not just white people). There was an interesting social experiment which highlighted just that a few years ago:
A completely colour blind justice system is the ultimate goal. I don't think we are there yet.
No I don't think we should discount inbuilt racism, sp. But I cannot see any evidence of it among the judiciary (and that is the only group of people who could set different sentences for "similar" offences.
Mr Lammy's report does not provide evidence of this. It simply provides the statistics which show the sentences that are handed down to various ethnic groups. Apart from the weaknesses associated with the study itself it shows no causal relationship, only that a relationship may possibly exist. It (and similar studies) lead readers to the false conclusion that the only explanation for he variations must be inbuilt racism. It is too big a leap.
Mr Lammy's report does not provide evidence of this. It simply provides the statistics which show the sentences that are handed down to various ethnic groups. Apart from the weaknesses associated with the study itself it shows no causal relationship, only that a relationship may possibly exist. It (and similar studies) lead readers to the false conclusion that the only explanation for he variations must be inbuilt racism. It is too big a leap.
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