Hajj Deaths-Again!!

[Drusilla]

Why is such a major religious event as the annual Hajj in Saudi Arabia so badly managed?
At least three hundred and forty five Moslems have been killed performing the Tawaf al-Wad farewell ceremony, where stones are thrown at the cube shaped Kaaba in the centre of the Great Mosque in Mecca.
It was only two years ago that a similar tragedy occured and although the Saudis have improved the barrier systems and increased the number of stewards, it seems outrageous that Moslems around the world are not treated with more care on this major occasion in the Moslem calendar.
The Saudi authorities will no doubt suggest this is the will of Allah, but surely its time for Moslem nations and concerned governments around the world to insist the Saudi authorities make better provision for these pilgrims in the future. Let's be honest, this is not a one off event in Mecca, like an Olympic Games, it is an annual event.
I would particularly like to hear the opinions of Moslem ABers about this.

[vehelpfulguy]

Who says it was badly managed. All that I heard on radio news says it was very well managed. They had thousands of stewards, and even some UK police went over to help manage it.

But you are talking about millions of people, all crushed together to try to get near a wall to throw stones at it.

You only need a few people to fall over and hundreds can tumble.

Remember we have had a 100 people killed at UK football matches in the past, and that was with only a few thousand people.

Imagine trying to control a million, all of whom are in a heightened state of religious fervour.

It is very easy to sit at your PC and accuse someone of badly managing something when you were not there.

[Drusilla]

Why do you always have to adopt such a stroppy attitude, even when you make a reasonable argument?

[NORMANTHEDOG]

I agree with drusilla,there must be a better way of doing this ceromony,surely only letting a certain number of people at one time into the area would be better,then just letting them all try to do it at the same time.

[Drusilla]

Thanks Norman. I felt I was in need of a bit of muscular back up. I can't see how 300+ deaths every couple of years can be classified as a success, even if the event involves two million people.
By the way Norman, what happened to your bunny question?

[*ALFIE*]

I always thought that the whole event needed to be more organised. Thing is, its a known obvious fact, that half of the world is muslim and so people infinite number of the that part of the world would all be here. We're not dealing with just the Saudi residents themselves....so its little tricky... :)

[*ALFIE*]

..excuse my english with, just knackered from work !

[Drusilla]

I agree Alfie. This is not just a Saudi festival but involves people from all over the Moslem world, including Britain, hence the large numbers attending.
I do believe Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.
Now, get to bed!!! :-)

[jno]

two million people... how on earth do you manage that many? And in a city of 2m people, how many would you expect to die every few days anyway? Not trying to be cynical, I just suspect there's not much more the Saudis can do.

Some Muslim may be able to explain, though, why they all have to go at once. Is it unacceptable for religious reasons to make it a year-round pilgrimage?

[Drusilla]

I know this is the twelfth month of the Moslem calendar, jno-Dhu al-Hjjah, but I don't know why the Haj has to take place at this time of year and am keen to know.

[shaneystar2]

It takes place at different times and goes with seasons and the lunar calendar.
The Islamic calendar is a lunar calendar, and months begin when the first crescent of a new moon is sighted. Since the Islamic lunar calendar year is 11 to 12 days shorter than the solar year, Dhu al-Hijjah migrates throughout the seasons.So it doesn't always happen at exactly the same time every year.The next ones will be
1427 AH � First day: December 22, 2006; last day: January 19, 2007
1428 AH � First day: December 11, 2007; last day: January 9, 2008
1429 AH � First day: November 30, 2008; last day: December 28, 2008 and it will keep going backwards I suppose until they end up at the beginning again .Or something like that !

Good old Wikipedia will tell you all about it.

[jno]

it just says it has to take place this month. But why all at once? Even spreading it out over a month would greatly lessen the risk. There may be something in the Koran, or other teachings, mandating this; or it may just suit the Saudis; I don't know.

[brionon]

As I asked elsewhere, is throwing stones at the Devil wise ?

[shaneystar2]

Critics say that the Saudi government should have done more to prevent such tragedies. The Saudi government insists that any such mass gatherings are inherently dangerous and difficult to handle, and that they have taken a number of steps to prevent problems.

One of the biggest steps, one which is also controversial, is a new system of registrations, passports, and travel visas to control the flow of pilgrims. This system is designed to encourage and accommodate first-time visitors to Mecca, while imposing restrictions upon those who embark upon the trip multiple times. Pilgrims who have the means and desire to perform the Hajj several times have protested what they see as discrimination, but the Hajj Commission has stated that they see no alternative if further tragedies are to be prevented.

Following the 2004 stampede, Saudi authorities embarked on major construction work in and around the Jamarat Bridge area. Additional accessways, footbridges, and emergency exits were built, and the three cylindrical pillars were replaced with longer and taller oblong walls of concrete to enable more pilgrims simultaneous access to them without the jostling and fighting for position of recent years. The government has also announced a multi-million-dollar project to expand the bridge to five levels; the project is planned for completion in time for the 1427 AH (Dec. 2006 � Jan. 2007) Hajj.

But they still don't seem to have it under control.

[NORMANTHEDOG]

drusilla,some one saw fit to remove my bunny question,hope your kids dident see it,anyhow he was very tasty.

[Insurgent]

Hi Drusilla
The stones are actually thrown at three pillars (jamaraat) which represent the three places where the devil try to tempt the Prophet Abraham (pbuh). The Kaaba is located in the centre of the Great Mosque, but stones are not thrown at it. Pilgrims walk seven times round Kaaba anti-clockwise, this is called Tawaf.
Personally speaking as a Muslim, dying while on Hajj is seen as a blessing and not as an accident (though you should not seek to die or be killed, as this is a sin), the way it maybe seen to westerners, therefore your not likely to see fingers being pointed or blame allocated. I think the Saudi authorities do a fantastic job in dealing with the number of pilgrims who perform hajj. You also have to understand they are dealing with hundreds of different languages, cultures and people, with varying levels of understanding. You will not experience anything like it anywhere on earth. The coming together of black and white, rich and poor, male and female all praying and submitting as one. A homeless pilgrim stands shoulder to shoulder with a billionaire and both are equal in the eyes of God. Only their actions and intentions separating them.

[Insurgent]

They do have limits on the amount of pilgrims from countries with high populations of Muslims (UK at present does not have a limit).
When you see someone off for Hajj it can be a mix of emotions as you are never sure if they will return. Other Muslims I have talked to have informed me that they have experienced an inner feeling of choice if they wish to return home once they complete hajj or die there. My mother and grandmother both testifying to this and knowing people who have past away while performing Hajj, who were completely healthy.
There is a problem I think of people repeatedly doing Hajj, which I feel is personally unnecessary as it would be more beneficially to pay for others who haven't had the opportunity already or who can't afford it to get a chance. But the feeling you get on Hajj is indescribable and addictive so people constantly want that closeness with God, hence the repeated visits.

[Drusilla]

Thank you so much Insurgent. Did I read somewhere that the three pillars had been replaced by walls to prevent crowd crushing?
Could you also confirm whether special clothing is worn on the Hajj so millionaires are indistiguishable from the poor.
My final question is about Malcolm X. Is it true that his experience on the Hajj encouraged him to seek a more conciliatory approach to politics in the US, rather than continue with his more isolationist stance?
Thanks in advance.

[mushroom25]

not so much a problem of "everybody going at once", but there are many millions of adherents of islam; years ago, notwithstanding the muslim duty to attend the hajj at least once, the journey to Mecca would have been beyond many. The fact that transport is becoming, in real terms, cheaper as time goes on means that there are many more that have the opportunity to make the pilgrimage. And why shouldn't they?

[Drusilla]

I don't believe anyone has suggested Moslems shouldn't attend, have they?