Atheists and the afterlife,

[claymore]

Guy I work with is a dyed in the wool atheist,hardcore. Having one of our many discussions on the subject he admitted to me that he believes in life after death.I told him he couldn`t have it both ways but he insists there is no conflict with his beliefs. Do any ABers feel the same way?

[ludwig]

// This is what you call that there is no atheist on a sinking ship. And I have seen that few times with my own eyes. //

Flipping heck you must be unlucky keyplus. Remind me never to go sailing with you.

[jackthehat]

Calling an 'essence' of someone that may, or may not, survive Death a *soul*, brings religion right back into it..........

It may be an indefinable 'something' but not necessarily a *soul*.

On the contrary keyplus, I very nearly lost my Dad in 2009. A very anxious few hours vigil in the hospital were spent by me and I didn't have recourse to pray to the tooth-fairy once in that time.

[Ankou]

thats my point jackthehat, unless this person in the op views it as some form of religious/godly experience, then there is no real question. they might just think of themself floating around the sky as some form of cloudy unobserved ectoplasm. which is fine. i think. not a belief i share, but fine.

[ludwig]

// Calling an 'essence' of someone that may, or may not, survive Death a *soul*, brings religion right back into it..........
It may be an indefinable 'something' but not necessarily a *soul*. //

Agreed jack.

[ludwig]

// There are a few, quite small number, of things that were irrational that turned out to be true //

Got to take issue with you there jake. There are a huge number of things which were irrational but turned out to be true. It's a list of things that stretches out behind us throughout the history of science and most likely streches a long way out in front of us as well.

[jake-the-peg]

OK then what is the difference in concept between this essence and a soul.

It sounds pretty damn similar to me!

[jackthehat]

There is no religion attached to the 'essence'.
That religions have chosen to misappropriate this 'essence' and call it a *soul* is unfortunate.

If the word *soul* is used we might as well start substituting 'heaven' for 'afterlife'.

[Ankou]

or you might as well call this essence a spirit. who's got dibs on that? doh!

i'm with jake, its indistinguishable, merely a connotation to a word based on your preferred perception. or am i wrong?

[erekose]

agree totally with naomi24.

[starone]

On the other hand, the churches were full during the war, so the sinking ship example could be valid

[erekose]

as a an aetheist I believe that gods only exist in the minds of people who need something to blame for their troubles something to ask to help them when they should be helping themselves.

[Ankou]

quite, as an atheist i believe that i should always be helping myself.
to quite a lot of things reallly.

[erekose]

like a life .without all the so called godly people telling you that you should be living their beliefs Knock Knock here's yet another jehovahs witness having to tout his religion door to door

[jackthehat]

I do agree.
But using the word *soul* may have the religionists bouncing up and down with glee using the word slice the argument into ever finer slices..........

essence = soul, therefore,
afterlife = heaven, etc.

[Ankou]

whereas using words like essence and afterlife will have hindus and buddhists .... er sitting on a rug going 'ohmmmmmm' ?!

[jake-the-peg]

Whether or not a religion is attached to the notion of a soul or heaven is entirely irrelevant.

Remove the organised religion - does the concept change?

Primitive societies all come up with the ideas of ancestor spirits and tree gods and what not, these spirits then are appropriated by religions.

The concept is the same it's all life after death

[jackthehat]

Exactly.
It may be semantics but *soul* carries with it notions of religion.

[ludwig]

The sinking ship thing's a bit silly starbuckone. Faced with certain death you'll do anything - I'd start praying - I mean what the f have you got to lose right?
You'll not only see plenty of atheists praying, you'll also see plenty of religious people trampling over each other to get the last seat on the lifeboat.

[ludwig]

"And when we die
Will we be that disappointed or sad
If heaven doesn't exist
What will we have missed
This life is the best we've ever had"

The divine comedy (the band not the book)

[naomi24]

Jack has hit the nail on the head in saying //That religions have chosen to misappropriate this 'essence' and call it a *soul* is unfortunate. //

Jake, yes I do think the concept changes if organised religion is removed from the equation.

Ludwig, you'd think the faithful would be clamouring to get there wouldn't you. ;o)