One for the religious: An introduction to Humanism

[birdie1971]

In case anyone's interested where I'm coming from...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=FLWOkEnBl5TO4SCLfSlosjgg&v=DZN8Ne1nmr4&feature=player_detailpage

[birdie1971]

[naomi24]

Me too.

[naomi24]

Birdie, interesting response. Too difficult perhaps?

[Andyvon]

I'd never heard of Humanism until my grandfather died and he had a 'Humanist' funeral. The service was held in the local crematorium but there was no vicar, the reading about him was given by a fellow humanist. There was no religious music - my cousin played a secular piece on the piano. I then made a point of finding out what Humanism. There are obviously lots of Humanists around.

I'm afraid I'm not one as I don't like people that much. Secondly, although I consider myself an atheist if I found out I was wrong when my time came I wouldn't want to take the chance of having to answer some awkward questions! I'll stick with the religious side of things like that - just in case!

[naomi24]

Andy, //I'll stick with the religious side of things like that - just in case! //

If God is what he is alleged to be, that will do you no good. He'll know what you're up to. ;o)

[Andyvon]

True Naomi, quite true!

I just never criticise religion (as you may recall from past posts), I'm always prepared to admit I'm wrong (just in case He is listening!) and I wouldn't refuse a religious funeral service.

[naomi24]

Andy, how very sad. I don't know if a creator God exists - I doubt it very much - but if such an entity does exist, it isn't one that you need to be afraid of - and it certainly isn't the bloke the synagogues, churches and mosques prattle on about.

[Andyvon]

I lived abroad until I was 12 Naomi. Several of the British schools I went to in different countries were C of E and one was a Catholic convent school where all the teachers were nuns. Perhaps it impressed a lasting fear or uncertainty in me!

[naomi24]

Andy, it seems it must have done - but it's not unusual.

[mibn2cweus]

//I lived abroad until I was 12 Naomi. Several of the British schools I went to in different countries were C of E and one was a Catholic convent school where all the teachers were nuns. Perhaps it impressed a lasting fear or uncertainty in me!//

If they've destroyed your will to curse them for your own sake then why not damn them for all the others they've victimised . . . just like you?

[naomi24]

Mibs, difficult when you still half believe what you've been taught - and the niggling fear still lingers. Awful - just awful.

[Andyvon]

A 'niggling, underlying uncertainty' is about right Naomi and Midn. It's alwasy been there.

Then there's the fact that 84% of the world's adult population believe in a superior being of one sort of another. That's 1 billion Muslims, 1 billion Hindus, another 1 billion or so Christians, millions of Jews etc. I don't think little old me is big enough to claim that all those billions of people around the world are wrong while I'm actually right. I'd feel very arrogant and conceited if I did that.

[naomi24]

But ask yourself why they believe it, Andy - and the answer is because that's what they have been taught - just as that's what you have been taught - but if you have the courage to actually examine that teaching, you discover that there is no evidence whatsoever to support it. There's no arrogance or conceit in telling the truth.

Night all. x

[Andyvon]

You are right that most of those 84% are a product of the culture they are born into. "Give me the child and I will show you the man" (I can't remember who said that - Jung or Freud was it?). It's true though. Children are moulded by their parents and they grow up never thinking to even question the basis of their cultural beliefs. Perhaps they don't even feel they have the right to do that.

I did state earlier that I consider myself an atheist as I don't believe in a superior being. I look out into the universe (through my telescope, books and other media of course) read whatever I do about astrophysics and how what we see was created and I can't accept the superior being concept.

Typing this however, I still have that underlying concern that Someone might not be impressed! I'm 50 now so I suppose that underlying uncertainty won't go now!

[mibn2cweus]

Naomi, such childhood indoctrination can not be fully erased no matter how unreasonable you might eventually understand it to be. I don't know that I ever believed what they insisted was my inescapable fate but the relentless damage done has none the less been evident throughout my life and persists without mercy as does the need to reassure myself on a daily basis of why I have nothing to fear . . . but fear itself. Nor will I ever recover the lost years and the cost of all the time I've been forced to invest in fighting an invisible foe but one that is no less real and deeply ingrained in the psyche of those who've been so monstrously affected.

[birdie1971]

Mibs - “... Nor will I ever recover the lost years and the cost of all the time I've been forced to invest in fighting an invisible foe...”

That's such a shame. In fact, it's a tragedy. It is also one of the very many reasons why I despise the teachings of organised religion – the indoctrination of guilt and fear in to a person at a fundamental subconscious level. It is truly a disgusting and anti-hunamistic concept.

Thanks everyone for all your thoughts on this matter.

[mibn2cweus]

//That's such a shame. In fact, it's a tragedy. It is also one of the very many reasons why I despise the teachings of organised religion – the indoctrination of guilt and fear in to a person at a fundamental subconscious level. It is truly a disgusting and anti-hunamistic concept.//

Indeed it is Birdie. It's hard to imagine anything worse on a psychological level than to have been infected by what is essentially a mental illness except perhaps having to bear the guilt of the realisation that one had been not only a carrier but a spreader of the disease as well . . . albeit unwittingly. Yet one more of the potentially dreadful consequences of adopting arbitrary beliefs.

[Andyvon]

It's not just religion. It's also disturbing that politicians and the media do exactly the same.

There are so many examples all around us of how the innocent and vulnerable minds of very young children are manipulated by those in power to indoctrinate them to accept certain political and social agendas. Those adults manipulating children so young are the ones I consider truly evil. Yet they tell us that they are right, everyone with a different opinion is wrong and that we must consider ourselves really lucky that we have them!

[naomi24]

Mibs, //Naomi, such childhood indoctrination can not be fully erased no matter how unreasonable you might eventually understand it to be. //

That's why I talked about that niggling fear that lingers. I know it does.

Moving on a little, watching that video, I wonder what anyone could find wrong in a humanist philosophy? Unless the primary intention is to somehow survive death, then in life 'God' is surplus to requirements. I’d be interested in reading any criticism. Any offers?

Andy and Mibs, may I say chatting in such a civilised manner with you last night was an absolute pleasure. Had I not been so tired, I would have stayed later. Thank you.