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Atheist Literature
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Do any of the religious people here ever read books written by atheist authors such as Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris? If ‘yes’, what have you read and what are your thoughts - and if ‘no’ why not?
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Sandy no its not. Not believing in god is what? Believing in god is what?
I am like every one else. When god pays my mortgage, puts food on my table, ensures my health then i'll believe.
You have to live many years here on earth and while we are here your life is exactly the same as mine. You can be as pious as you wish but the only difference is you waste hours of your life in the vain pursuit of heaven whilst I spend it usefully.
You think your going to heaven but you can't be sure you have picked right so if there is heaven and you have picked wrong, you and I will end up in the same place.
I am like every one else. When god pays my mortgage, puts food on my table, ensures my health then i'll believe.
You have to live many years here on earth and while we are here your life is exactly the same as mine. You can be as pious as you wish but the only difference is you waste hours of your life in the vain pursuit of heaven whilst I spend it usefully.
You think your going to heaven but you can't be sure you have picked right so if there is heaven and you have picked wrong, you and I will end up in the same place.
Dave, as a result of childhood indoctrination, albeit the ‘comfortable’ version of Christianity, I was rather religious at one time – and now I can hardly believe that I was once highly offended by Monty Python’s quite brilliant ‘Life of Brian’! Thank Zeus for books, eh? – and for the ability to acknowledge indisputable evidence and admit I was wrong!! :o)
There’s no point in asking Keyplus about the ethics of lying. Firstly, he could never comprehend that someone else’s moral code is different to his, and secondly deceiving the infidel is acceptable within Islam. Check it out.
Ed, I don’t know who those people are – but I agree – angry atheism, just like angry religion, can be embarrassing - and is neither positive nor productive.
There’s no point in asking Keyplus about the ethics of lying. Firstly, he could never comprehend that someone else’s moral code is different to his, and secondly deceiving the infidel is acceptable within Islam. Check it out.
Ed, I don’t know who those people are – but I agree – angry atheism, just like angry religion, can be embarrassing - and is neither positive nor productive.
To get away from teasing Sandy and answer the original question, although I am an atheist, I have read a few of Richard Dawkins books but more from an interest in the mechanisms of evolution. I find that his demolitions of religionsbased on belief in god unnecessarily long winded and mostly redundant. The non-existance of god can be successfully argued on one page, the rest although entertaining is not necessary.
Keyplus - “... I know I did [read the God Delusion] and knowing you two very well, even if I sit there in front of you and read it once more for the sake of it, still you would never admit or accept that I did...”
If you sat in front of me and read aloud the God Delusion then I would accept without question that you had indeed read it as this would constitute factual evidence. However, since you and I will never meet, we are reduced to discussion via the medium of text. Unfortunately for you, you have 'form' when it comes to being honest on this website. In fact, it has been demonstrated time and time again that you are not averse to telling absolutely whopping lies and yet on this matter, you wish to be taken at your word.
As an alleged dementia patient and drug addict, I trust that you'll understand why I take your assurances with a pinch of salt.
If you sat in front of me and read aloud the God Delusion then I would accept without question that you had indeed read it as this would constitute factual evidence. However, since you and I will never meet, we are reduced to discussion via the medium of text. Unfortunately for you, you have 'form' when it comes to being honest on this website. In fact, it has been demonstrated time and time again that you are not averse to telling absolutely whopping lies and yet on this matter, you wish to be taken at your word.
As an alleged dementia patient and drug addict, I trust that you'll understand why I take your assurances with a pinch of salt.
I'm a great fan of pugnacious atheists like Hitchens (RIP), Dawkins and the questioner. However, I was disappointed by the poorly written and ranting God Delusion; I remember the same reaction many years ago when I read The Age of Reason. Hitchens' erudition is marvellous, but the subtitle is hyperbolic and neither book would do much to win decent believers over. The one was and the other is excellent when addressing their polemic at the right targets.
I would recommend Hume's Dialogues and The Natural History of Religion to an educated believer and, for that matter, to any atheist who hasn't read them.
I downloaded a taster of a Harris book in which he takes on the task of establishing a scientific (and therefore objective) morality. Tough one that. After the comments here I'll get the whole book and check out Harris on Youtube, too.
Is the Islamic apologia any good, Naomi? Would I enjoy reading it?
Christians/Jews, can you recommend any books which make an intelligent case for your beliefs (whatever variety they may be)?
I would recommend Hume's Dialogues and The Natural History of Religion to an educated believer and, for that matter, to any atheist who hasn't read them.
I downloaded a taster of a Harris book in which he takes on the task of establishing a scientific (and therefore objective) morality. Tough one that. After the comments here I'll get the whole book and check out Harris on Youtube, too.
Is the Islamic apologia any good, Naomi? Would I enjoy reading it?
Christians/Jews, can you recommend any books which make an intelligent case for your beliefs (whatever variety they may be)?
Vetuste, well, thank you kind sir, but pugnacious? Moi? The very idea! :o)
//Is the Islamic apologia any good, Naomi? Would I enjoy reading it?//
Well, that depends to a great extent upon the depth of your interest in religion – and, moreover, upon your staying power. If you want to read a book that, among other things, compares, often in flowery and unworldly terms, the (dubious) virtues of Islam to the author’s perceived failings of other religions, then it might be for you. If memory serves, he was raised by agnostic parents and his interest in Islam was initially aroused by people he met. I vividly remember thinking that his decision to become Muslim was made rather rapidly, and I wanted to know more about his fundamental reasons for choosing Islam above any other religion - so that was a bit of a disappointment.
//Christians/Jews, can you recommend any books which make an intelligent case for your beliefs (whatever variety they may be)?//
That’s an excellent question, any answers to which I would welcome. Since, I’m told, these threads are ignored by some, may I suggest you post it separately?
//Is the Islamic apologia any good, Naomi? Would I enjoy reading it?//
Well, that depends to a great extent upon the depth of your interest in religion – and, moreover, upon your staying power. If you want to read a book that, among other things, compares, often in flowery and unworldly terms, the (dubious) virtues of Islam to the author’s perceived failings of other religions, then it might be for you. If memory serves, he was raised by agnostic parents and his interest in Islam was initially aroused by people he met. I vividly remember thinking that his decision to become Muslim was made rather rapidly, and I wanted to know more about his fundamental reasons for choosing Islam above any other religion - so that was a bit of a disappointment.
//Christians/Jews, can you recommend any books which make an intelligent case for your beliefs (whatever variety they may be)?//
That’s an excellent question, any answers to which I would welcome. Since, I’m told, these threads are ignored by some, may I suggest you post it separately?
Thanks for your answer, Naomi. Right, I'll give the "why I converted" book a miss. I'm very interested in religion, but want a bit of critical intelligence in its defenders (don't LOL me on that). It is possible to find stuff worth reading: Joad, Chesterton and CS Lewis, for instance.
Shopping about to arrive, fox to feed, cava to open. Have a pleasant evening.
Shopping about to arrive, fox to feed, cava to open. Have a pleasant evening.
Thanks, Ludwig. I have read Mere Christianity, but it was a long time ago. I'll re-read it as well as the Screwtape Letters which I recommended to Sandy. Of course Lewis would be rather low church for him.
Not directly to the point of the question, but I'm with those who enjoyed RD's Greatest Show on Earth.
Not directly to the point of the question, but I'm with those who enjoyed RD's Greatest Show on Earth.
@sith123 - “... ive read richard dawkins. you know what my opinions are...”
Have you really? Do you mean 'read' in a Keyplusian kind of way? That is to say, you haven't read any of Dawkins' books but simply claim to have done so in order to make blasé statements along the lines of, “I've read his book(s) but I do not agree with his conclusions”, or “He has nothing new to say in this debate”?
It is interesting when debating with theists who claim to have read books such as “The God Delusion” by Dawkins or “God Is Not Great” by Hitchens, that they never, ever, address any specific point made in any of these (or other) books. Compare and contrast that with atheists discussing religion. I don't know any atheist personally or on AB who isn't at least familiar with the religious texts they are debating and a good number of them know the religious texts as well, if not better, than their religious opponents.
One might conclude that the inability of various theists to debate the works of Dawkins and Hitchens is borne not from an unwillingness to engage in debate about specific points but is rather an inevitable consequence of them not being familiar with what these authors have actually written.
Have you really? Do you mean 'read' in a Keyplusian kind of way? That is to say, you haven't read any of Dawkins' books but simply claim to have done so in order to make blasé statements along the lines of, “I've read his book(s) but I do not agree with his conclusions”, or “He has nothing new to say in this debate”?
It is interesting when debating with theists who claim to have read books such as “The God Delusion” by Dawkins or “God Is Not Great” by Hitchens, that they never, ever, address any specific point made in any of these (or other) books. Compare and contrast that with atheists discussing religion. I don't know any atheist personally or on AB who isn't at least familiar with the religious texts they are debating and a good number of them know the religious texts as well, if not better, than their religious opponents.
One might conclude that the inability of various theists to debate the works of Dawkins and Hitchens is borne not from an unwillingness to engage in debate about specific points but is rather an inevitable consequence of them not being familiar with what these authors have actually written.
haha, so you think that just because i am a muslim, i do not read other books. The truth is i read them because i am a muslim. as i have said i researched every religion, and that included atheism (even though its not a religion it is a belief).
this just shows stereotypes. As i am a muslim you believe that all i read is the quran? lol, classic. however i have read the god delusion, the selfish gene and also the blind watchmaker.
this just shows stereotypes. As i am a muslim you believe that all i read is the quran? lol, classic. however i have read the god delusion, the selfish gene and also the blind watchmaker.
