News1 min ago
Could This By Any Stretch Of The Imagination Be Classed As Tory Propaganda?
52 Answers
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/// Parents have complained to David Cameron after a Tory councillor used a picture of their children sledging on his Christmas card without their permission. ///
/// ‘My children have been recognised by many people in the community who have now wrongly made the assumption that my family are Conservative Party supporters. ///
/// Parents have complained to David Cameron after a Tory councillor used a picture of their children sledging on his Christmas card without their permission. ///
/// ‘My children have been recognised by many people in the community who have now wrongly made the assumption that my family are Conservative Party supporters. ///
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I am not sure what your point is here AOG - ?
If you think that the notion of 'propaganda' is raised by the fact that the councillor appeared to indicate political endoresement of the parents of the photography subjects, then I would suggest that such a notion is well wide of the mark.
As far as the counsellor is concerned, he took a Christmas scene photo, and as he advises, he has not broken the law in so doing.
But someone in public life should exhibit an awareness of the sensitivity of his action, and here I think he is somewhat at fault.
I would feel aggrieved if a member of my family innocently appeared to offer endoresement of a politician who did not enjoy my support - so I understand the ire of the parents.
So no, I do not think it is 'Tory propganda', but I do think his action was thoughtless, and he should aceed to the parents' wishes on this occasion.
If you think that the notion of 'propaganda' is raised by the fact that the councillor appeared to indicate political endoresement of the parents of the photography subjects, then I would suggest that such a notion is well wide of the mark.
As far as the counsellor is concerned, he took a Christmas scene photo, and as he advises, he has not broken the law in so doing.
But someone in public life should exhibit an awareness of the sensitivity of his action, and here I think he is somewhat at fault.
I would feel aggrieved if a member of my family innocently appeared to offer endoresement of a politician who did not enjoy my support - so I understand the ire of the parents.
So no, I do not think it is 'Tory propganda', but I do think his action was thoughtless, and he should aceed to the parents' wishes on this occasion.
-- answer removed --
andy-hughes
/// I am not sure what your point is here AOG - ? ///
If you have read the story, perhaps you missed this passage.....
*** Mr Welch, 39, said: ‘I was disgusted when I found out and my wife was seething. We knew nothing about this and don’t want the image of our children to be used for Conservative propaganda. ***
That is what I was referring to, nothing more sinister than just asking a question.
/// I would feel aggrieved if a member of my family innocently appeared to offer endoresement of a politician who did not enjoy my support - so I understand the ire of the parents. ///
In this it would appear that you seem as over sensitive as the parents, it was a simple Christmas card illustrated by some hardly recognisable children sledging, it was not an illustration on a voting pamphlet.
/// I am not sure what your point is here AOG - ? ///
If you have read the story, perhaps you missed this passage.....
*** Mr Welch, 39, said: ‘I was disgusted when I found out and my wife was seething. We knew nothing about this and don’t want the image of our children to be used for Conservative propaganda. ***
That is what I was referring to, nothing more sinister than just asking a question.
/// I would feel aggrieved if a member of my family innocently appeared to offer endoresement of a politician who did not enjoy my support - so I understand the ire of the parents. ///
In this it would appear that you seem as over sensitive as the parents, it was a simple Christmas card illustrated by some hardly recognisable children sledging, it was not an illustration on a voting pamphlet.
I am very surprised by some of your concerns, the children's images were not being used in any dubious way, if this councillor had took a photograph of a mixed assembly of adults and children ice skating, would he have had to seek the permission of the parents of all those children, if he could use the photograph on his Christmas card?
AOG - "If you have read the story, perhaps you missed this passage.....
*** Mr Welch, 39, said: ‘I was disgusted when I found out and my wife was seething. We knew nothing about this and don’t want the image of our children to be used for Conservative propaganda. ***
That is what I was referring to, nothing more sinister than just asking a question."
Indeed I did miss that part through skimmed reading - and I saw nothing at all sinister in your question, merely that you were raising a debate subject, as is standard for this section.
"/// I would feel aggrieved if a member of my family innocently appeared to offer endoresement of a politician who did not enjoy my support - so I understand the ire of the parents. ///
In this it would appear that you seem as over sensitive as the parents, it was a simple Christmas card illustrated by some hardly recognisable children sledging, it was not an illustration on a voting pamphlet"
I don't agree that they are being over-sensitive.
It's not a 'simple Christmas card' - it is an official Crhistmas card distributed by a Tory counsellor, and from the parents' reaction, it is clear that the image of their children is identifiable, otherwise recipients would be unaware of the childrens' names, and so would not be wondering about their parents' political affiliations - which is the point of their upset.
If the ouncellor wants to include local children on his official Christmas cards, he has the option of photographing his own, if he has them, or a wiling friend, relative, or council supporter's children, which will cause no issue.
I appreciate that his action was thoughtless rather than malicious, but the consequences remain the same, regardless of the origin.
*** Mr Welch, 39, said: ‘I was disgusted when I found out and my wife was seething. We knew nothing about this and don’t want the image of our children to be used for Conservative propaganda. ***
That is what I was referring to, nothing more sinister than just asking a question."
Indeed I did miss that part through skimmed reading - and I saw nothing at all sinister in your question, merely that you were raising a debate subject, as is standard for this section.
"/// I would feel aggrieved if a member of my family innocently appeared to offer endoresement of a politician who did not enjoy my support - so I understand the ire of the parents. ///
In this it would appear that you seem as over sensitive as the parents, it was a simple Christmas card illustrated by some hardly recognisable children sledging, it was not an illustration on a voting pamphlet"
I don't agree that they are being over-sensitive.
It's not a 'simple Christmas card' - it is an official Crhistmas card distributed by a Tory counsellor, and from the parents' reaction, it is clear that the image of their children is identifiable, otherwise recipients would be unaware of the childrens' names, and so would not be wondering about their parents' political affiliations - which is the point of their upset.
If the ouncellor wants to include local children on his official Christmas cards, he has the option of photographing his own, if he has them, or a wiling friend, relative, or council supporter's children, which will cause no issue.
I appreciate that his action was thoughtless rather than malicious, but the consequences remain the same, regardless of the origin.
What andy-hughes said. It's not propaganda, but he shouldn't have done it.
Would you like your picture being sent out on a Labour councillor's Christmas card without your permission? It could happen. He could see what he assumes is a cheery old gent trudging through the snow, and think it'd make a nice wintry scene for his non-religious Winterval card, reminding us of the plight of the old, infirm and down and out at this time of year.
Would you like your picture being sent out on a Labour councillor's Christmas card without your permission? It could happen. He could see what he assumes is a cheery old gent trudging through the snow, and think it'd make a nice wintry scene for his non-religious Winterval card, reminding us of the plight of the old, infirm and down and out at this time of year.
It is not propaganda. But it is bad practice and amateur.
You must always seek permission to use pictures of the public. It does not matter if they are children or adults, permission, preferably written consent must be sought. That is why photos often have faces pixelated, like it the Mail's reproduction.
The rule is often broken, not just by Tory Councillors. Where he went wrong, was that the subjects were obviously local and so were likely to see the card and the context it was being used.
I am surprised he was not captured by the police and rigorously interrogated for taking photos of children.
You must always seek permission to use pictures of the public. It does not matter if they are children or adults, permission, preferably written consent must be sought. That is why photos often have faces pixelated, like it the Mail's reproduction.
The rule is often broken, not just by Tory Councillors. Where he went wrong, was that the subjects were obviously local and so were likely to see the card and the context it was being used.
I am surprised he was not captured by the police and rigorously interrogated for taking photos of children.
regardless of politics, I'd feel unhappy about my child's photo appearing on anyone's greetings cards unless I'd given permission.
But yes, it is also a political statement. It wasn't a private card; it was, it seems, sent out by a councillor to voters in his ward, so it's a form of campaign material aimed at keeping him in the public eye. I think that makes it worse and I'd say the same whatever party he belonged to.
But yes, it is also a political statement. It wasn't a private card; it was, it seems, sent out by a councillor to voters in his ward, so it's a form of campaign material aimed at keeping him in the public eye. I think that makes it worse and I'd say the same whatever party he belonged to.
/// and I saw nothing at all sinister in your question, merely that you were raising a debate subject, as is standard for this section. ///
Then why bother to ask "I am not sure what your point is here AOG" - ?
/// It's not a 'simple Christmas card' - it is an official Crhistmas card distributed by a Tory counsellor, ///
Are all the Christmas cards you send out Andy also 'official'?
/// and from the parents' reaction, it is clear that the image of their children is identifiable, otherwise recipients would be unaware of the childrens' names, and so would not be wondering about their parents' political affiliations - which is the point of their upset. ///
Perhaps I also have missed something by just 'skimmed reading' because I was not aware that before the parents made their complaint that the recipients did know the children's names, but they sure do now.
Oh what a strange mind-set the Left possess, I am oh so pleased that the Right's is not so touchy.
Then why bother to ask "I am not sure what your point is here AOG" - ?
/// It's not a 'simple Christmas card' - it is an official Crhistmas card distributed by a Tory counsellor, ///
Are all the Christmas cards you send out Andy also 'official'?
/// and from the parents' reaction, it is clear that the image of their children is identifiable, otherwise recipients would be unaware of the childrens' names, and so would not be wondering about their parents' political affiliations - which is the point of their upset. ///
Perhaps I also have missed something by just 'skimmed reading' because I was not aware that before the parents made their complaint that the recipients did know the children's names, but they sure do now.
Oh what a strange mind-set the Left possess, I am oh so pleased that the Right's is not so touchy.
ludwig
/// Would you like your picture being sent out on a Labour councillor's Christmas card without your permission? It could happen. He could see what he assumes is a cheery old gent trudging through the snow, and think it'd make a nice wintry scene for his non-religious Winterval card, reminding us of the plight of the old, infirm and down and out at this time of year. ///
If it was so worded so as to give out that "old, infirm and down and out at this time of year image", then yes I would be most annoyed, but if it didn't hold such a message', then I would be honoured to be classed a perfect example of elderly gent trudging through the snow, for his Christmas cards.
/// Would you like your picture being sent out on a Labour councillor's Christmas card without your permission? It could happen. He could see what he assumes is a cheery old gent trudging through the snow, and think it'd make a nice wintry scene for his non-religious Winterval card, reminding us of the plight of the old, infirm and down and out at this time of year. ///
If it was so worded so as to give out that "old, infirm and down and out at this time of year image", then yes I would be most annoyed, but if it didn't hold such a message', then I would be honoured to be classed a perfect example of elderly gent trudging through the snow, for his Christmas cards.
"Mr Welch, 39, said: ‘I was disgusted when I found out and my wife was seething."
I would bet my bottom dollar that he didn't actually say that.
It's common practice for journalists to say to interviewees, "Would you say that you were disgusted? Was your wife seething when she saw the photo".
It's because it reads better.
No-one 'seethes' nowadays.
The last time I seethed was in the mid 80s.
I would bet my bottom dollar that he didn't actually say that.
It's common practice for journalists to say to interviewees, "Would you say that you were disgusted? Was your wife seething when she saw the photo".
It's because it reads better.
No-one 'seethes' nowadays.
The last time I seethed was in the mid 80s.
AOG - "/// and I saw nothing at all sinister in your question, merely that you were raising a debate subject, as is standard for this section. ///
Then why bother to ask "I am not sure what your point is here AOG" - ?"
I asked because I was unsure of the point you were raising. The fact that I saw nothing sinister in your Question is not connected to the fact that I didn't entirely understand it.
"/// It's not a 'simple Christmas card' - it is an official Crhistmas card distributed by a Tory counsellor, ///
Are all the Christmas cards you send out Andy also 'official'?"
No, none of mine are 'official' because I am not a councillor!
Come on AOG, this is nit-picking and you know it!
This councillor will have personal cards to friends and family from himself and family, which are the sort we all send.
He will also have 'official cards', as he has indicated, with different scenes on, sent to his constituents, and no doubt funded by his party, which is all well and good.
But to suggest that both are the same is nonsense, and I think you know that.
His official cards to his constituents - which are clearly connected to his position as a Tory councillor, have been sent out in bulk with identifiable images of local children on them, and the parents are not unreasonably aggrieved.
Then why bother to ask "I am not sure what your point is here AOG" - ?"
I asked because I was unsure of the point you were raising. The fact that I saw nothing sinister in your Question is not connected to the fact that I didn't entirely understand it.
"/// It's not a 'simple Christmas card' - it is an official Crhistmas card distributed by a Tory counsellor, ///
Are all the Christmas cards you send out Andy also 'official'?"
No, none of mine are 'official' because I am not a councillor!
Come on AOG, this is nit-picking and you know it!
This councillor will have personal cards to friends and family from himself and family, which are the sort we all send.
He will also have 'official cards', as he has indicated, with different scenes on, sent to his constituents, and no doubt funded by his party, which is all well and good.
But to suggest that both are the same is nonsense, and I think you know that.
His official cards to his constituents - which are clearly connected to his position as a Tory councillor, have been sent out in bulk with identifiable images of local children on them, and the parents are not unreasonably aggrieved.
But to answer your question AOG, technically, I wouldn't call it propoganda.
The definition of the word is:
"information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view."
The cards were not actually promoting the Conservatives, unless there was wording on the back which supports Tory ideals or policies.
If the card simply read, "Merry Christmas from Councillor John Peach", then it's just a Christmas card.
Foolish to use that picture though.
The definition of the word is:
"information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view."
The cards were not actually promoting the Conservatives, unless there was wording on the back which supports Tory ideals or policies.
If the card simply read, "Merry Christmas from Councillor John Peach", then it's just a Christmas card.
Foolish to use that picture though.
