English indifference towards Jesus-Christ.

[Seabedsurfer]

I saw an clip in the news a while ago that said the Church of England wouldn't release church attendance figures because they were below a million and then a cardinal added that Christianity was dead. Do you think that this, unfortunately, is just a reflection of European Society at large or is it something specific in England? 

[woofgang]

well I'm not sure about your use of the word unfortunately and I would suggest that it says more about people's attitude to the church of england that it does about their atitude to God

[Lillabet]

I think it is a sign that church attendance figures are down in the Church of England. Certainly not a reflection of European society. Many European countries have a very high level of religious engagement. Just look at the scenes when the Pope died.

Christianity is certainly not dead - there are billions of practising christians all over the world. There are many more people who have a faith that may be very strong but who choose not to attend church to practise their faith.

In England, based on my friends etc, there are many many people who live according to 'christian' principles but who do not wish to be part of the established church. This does not mean that they are without their own spirituality. I don't think england is spiritually ailing but equally believe that more people fulfill their spiritual - not necessarily religious - needs without the help of an established religion.

I wouldn't necessarily describe this as 'unfortunate' just different.

[jno]

just C of E perhaps, evangelicals are supposed to be doing well. Catholic countries are more likely to have active churchgoers.

[FP]

I think Lillabet is exactly right.  Most people have principles which could be almost defined as 'Christian principles'.  However, I believe we are not a church going nation because we are more individual and do not follow like sheep.  We do not need to worship in a church to prove we have good values, and do not need organised religion.    We do not need to 'shout' about our beliefs, and we accept others and their beliefs,  more readily than most other nations.

I am proud of my country in this respect.

[Clanad]

Picking up on jno's post, we find that the experiential branches of Christianity, i.e., Pentecostal, Charismatic, branches that believe and practice Bible teachings concerning the gifts of the Spirit (laying on of hands, speaking in tongues) and especially the fact that God loves you and is not going to exact retribution if one fails to follow a given denominations tenets, are seeing explosive growth.  This is quite true almost everywhere, but noticeably so in South America and Africa. While I'm not familiar with the Church of England, other than the Episcopalian version of the US, those churches that practice a formulated version of Christianity are not doing well.  A believer wants and needs to see God active in their lives.  Otherwise there is no difference between themselves and the rest of the world...

[Seabedsurfer]

Thanks for your interesting answer Clanad. Was is the American equivalent of Anglicanism?

[flaming]

There doesn't seem to be much rejoicing, does there, in C of E services?  Just look at any service or hymn-singing on the 'box'.  Everyone tends to look glum. An alien from another planet could think that everyone involved in these was gloomy about their faith, rather than celebrating it.  Also, I am an atheist but I reckon I can out-Christian a lot of so-called Christians when it comes to ethics. Church attendance might not reflect the belief of a nation.  I have heard that in Italy the following of Roman Catholic teachings are being ignored when it comes to divorce or contraception.  What's the good of going to Church if one doesn't believe in the basic principles?  The people in Rome came from a lot of countries in the world.  Even I was mildly interested in it simply because of followers of a faith displaying such devotion, and  of course the position of Pope is quite a notable one in world affairs.  There might be many people in Europe who fell as I do about any organised religion i.e. that it s far-removed from the original teachings and has little to do with life as lived by ordinary folk.  Jesus was said to be very loving and forgiving. How much of that is there 2000 odd years later? I don't hear the C of E condemning a lot of things they ought to - I think it is too heirarchical and entwined with the State in Engand.

[Clanad]

Seabedsurfer, here's a brief history of North American Anglicanism:  During the American Revolution the personal loyalties of the church�s clergy and laity were seriously split, and American independence brought about the disestablishment of the Anglican Church. After the Revolution the first objective of American Anglicans was to organize a native episcopacy and a national church. The new ecclesiastical body was called the Protestant Episcopal Church, a name approved in 1789 by the first General Convention of the denomination, which also adopted a constitution and a revised version of the Book of Common Prayer. Dr. Samuel Seabury of Connecticut was consecrated bishop in 1784 by bishops of Scotland, and William White of Pennsylvania and Samuel Provoost of New York were consecrated bishops in England in 1787. In 1817, General Theological Seminary was organized, and in 1820 the Domestic and Foreign Missionary Society was established.